Its not often that The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal are in agreement about happenings in Washington, but on the CDCs Ebola-related performance, the two papers came out Saturday slamming the agency.
According to the NY Times’ lead article, President Obama is seething at the U.S. Centers for Disease Controls handling of the Ebola outbreak in the U.S. Mr. Obama placed much of the blame on the C.D.C., which provided shifting information about which threat category patients were in, and did not adequately train doctors and nurses at hospitals with Ebola cases on the proper protective procedures. (Obama has taken the extraordinary step of placing his own guy, a lawyer, in charge of overseeing the CDC.)
A NY Times columnist, Joe Nocera, continued the assault inside the paper, noting that the CDC was too hubristic in its approach to Ebola, and the consequence is that its staff now looks like bumblers. He partly blamed budget cuts that led to top scientists leaving the agency.
Actually, that stuff was all goody-goody compared to what WSJ columnist Peggy Noonan had to say about the CDCs director, Thomas Frieden. Referring to his testimony before Congress last week, she said his answers often sound like filibusters: long, rolling paragraphs of benign assertion, advertising slogansWe know how to stop Ebola, Our focus is protecting peopleoccasionally extraneous data, and testimony to the excellence of our health-care professionals It feels like how the pediatrician talks to the child, not the parents.
Well, I hate to say, I told you so about the CDC’ (okay, I dont entirely hate to say it), but weve known about the CDCs manipulative ways with data and its inability to utter a simple declarative sentence about pretty much anything for a long time. And Im not just talking about its politicizing and demonizing of raw milkits apportionment of scarce funding on ridiculous studies like that in Minnesota to suggest raw milk sickened 20,000-plus during this century’s first decade, or its funding of a study showing more people get sick from raw milk in states where its legal than where it is illegal, or the first-ever (and only) government web site devoted entirely to fear-mongering over a particular food (raw milk).
No, Im talking about its inability to ever put together usable and realistic data about the state of food-borne illness in the U.S., which it always suggests is in a state of crisis, even though the real-life data indicate nothing of the sort. Its inability to tell us how particular foods compare in the illness dangers they pose, or where they occur geographically, or how they change over time.
Now, unfortunately, the rest of the country is getting to see, in prime time and in a time of apparent crisis, the incompetence and arrogance that we at The Complete Patient have seen for too long now. The CDC’s professionals are supposed to be like members of the military–in training and preparing for the crisis around the corner. The last couple weeks have been show time for the CDC, and it was totally unprepared. It was like its professionals spent the last several decades playing poker and blackjack when they should have been training and staying sharp.
Whats especially ironic is that the national media and politicians now bashing the CDC have for years literally worshipped in its cathedral of “science,” as if its bureaucrats walked on water. PBS felt compelled in its new documentary series on food to paste in CDC warnings every few minutes.
They are all coming to realize that those professionals over there supposedly worrying about protecting us and about our “safety” have really been most worried about protecting their cushy jobs.
I am just a little proud of Obama this time around. It is about time he sees them as incompetent, cause that is precisely what they are proving to be. They have no leadership or a science based true north for integrity !!! Lies return to the roost. Just a. Matter of time.
Who did that FOIA? Is it published somewhere?
I saw a play last evening, “Ether Dome”, that is very apropos to what’s happened to the CDC. It’s about the discovery and first use of ether as an anesthesia, at Mass General Hospital in 1846. Before that, surgery was equivalent to torture and murder. Anyone with even a little bit of compassion couldn’t inflict the pain that nearly all surgeries required (though the surgeons then, as now, were the elite and worshipped). The really interesting part of the story is that when an eager would-be surgeon, an outsider, tries to introduce the surgeons at Mass General to laughing gas, and then to ether, they arrogantly refuse because the wannabe isn’t from Harvard and Boston clubbiness. Even when one Mass General surgeon has developed a form of ether, it sits at the hospital for several years because everyone is afflicted with tunnel vision. The wannabe develops that surgeon’s ether into a usable form and patents it, and eventually forces his way into Mass General to do his demo that changes medicine. At the end of the play, the Mass General chief surgeon realizes that Mass General could have probably developed ether as an anesthesia 50 years earlier, and saved huge amounts of suffering.
That is my major complaint about the CDC. It clearly has a “culture” that recognizes only what members of its “club” have to say. Now, when non-club members, including the President, want answers, the CDC is stuck and confused. It hasn’t kept itself open to new ideas, hasn’t stayed flexible to change, hasn’t prepared itself for the unexpected. You can say the CDC’s current problem are all about politics, that the politicians are always looking for a fall guy, but I think in this case, the politicians and media have worshipped the CDC, and only turned negative when they all saw, instead of a bunch of professionals, a bunch of bozos.
All I can say say is David, you hit it on the head let’s have more plays like that.
There were actually several FOIA requests made of the CDC. WAP and FTCLDF did a couple and I did one. There was one about Raw milk and listeria illnesses and or deaths. There was one about the origins of CDC reported deaths from raw milk. Not sure they have been published on line?
I also sent a few letters to the CDC wherein they actually responded with constructive comments until they found out that I wanted constructive dialogue about raw milk and true data. When they caught wind of constructive commentary….communications went cold. Really cold. My letters were signed as retired EMS medical educator, Fresno County EMS division- Paramedic. I think that really threw them off until I hinted at Raw Milk advocacy and demanded recognition of peer reviewed data, RAWMI data, and EU studies.
What I learned is this: The CDC and FDA do not lead and can not lead.
Instead, they reluctantly follow after others pioneer ideas, policies and practices. It took the FDA 10 years to make changes to policy after Jack in the Box changed to their zero ecoli standards in hamburger and increased cook temps to 165 degrees. The FDA was an advocate for the beef companies and did not want to upset the loose hamburger standards that allowed pathogens.
FDA and CDC leadership is something that is not part of their culture or DNA. However….everyone in America has been misled to think these organizations lead and somehow are competitant. I contenf, they are passengers locked behind the bullet proof security door at the cabin… not pilots leading, guiding or planning anything. By the way, industry loves this slow to move policy and culture. Industry does not like change….they love constant and continued policy of status quo error that supports industry and the constant profits by continued current policy and status quo error and screw ups.
Aren’t we blessed!!!
Teaching, educating consumers, building large markets that dollar vote is the only effective method to change this DNA of structural inaction. Quoting a PhD that has posted here before: “you just have to let them die off and have a new generation take over….that gets it”
Just to continue your historical references, Mark, it should be noted that the FDA for a number of years in the late 1970s and 1980s resisted calls by consumer groups that it crack down on raw milk via a ban on interstate sales and shipments. The FDA saw raw milk regulation as a state matter, and a not urgent public health matter. But the consumer advocates, primarily Ralph Nader groups, pushed the issue via a court suit, and in 1987 a federal judge ordered the FDA to implement the interstate ban. The rest is history.
Another study out of Europe of 1,000 moms indicating improved immune function for infants being fed raw milk. “Among children who were fed on fresh, unprocessed cows milk the incidence of head colds and other respiratory infections, febrile and middle-ear inflammation was found to be significantly lower than in the group whose milk ration consisted of the commercially processed ultra-pasteurized product, says Dr. Georg Loss of Dr. von Hauners Hospital….”
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141020090017.htm
For Level 4 pathogens: CDC has required airlocks, space suits, and chemical showers before their removal for years when they work with Ebola virus.
But they say nurses are safe, working with patients with not just diarrhea, it is explosive diarrhea and not just vomiting, it’s projectile vomiting and sometimes bleeding, while only wearing gowns, masks, shields, and thin gloves that don’t even totally cover them. No chemical showers or even bleach solution (as recommended for hospitals in Africa, according to their booklet) to decontaminate them before they remove those items. This makes NO sense.
Either the CDC’s protocol for its own workers is a million times stricter than needed, or hospitals are being given totally inadequate protocols for their healthcare workers to follow.
Ebola either requires full “space suits” and chemical decontamination before their removal, or it doesn’t. CDC, doesn’t have its act together and face the reality that regular hospitals are just not equipped to handle this highly contagious, deadly disease.
There seem to be three CDC-issued protocols for the “safe” handling of Ebola:
1. Negative pressure airlocks, full “space suits,” and chemical
decontamination showers, along with heat or chemical treatment of all
wastes before discharge (for the CDC’s own Atlanta facility and its
workers);
2. As much protection (gowns, goggles, masks, face shields, head
coverings, double gloves, rubber boots, rubber aprons) as can be
obtained, and using bleach solution on body fluid spills and for
spray-down of protective gear before it’s removed (African healthcare
facilities);
3. Regular isolation contact and droplet precautions (flimsy gowns,
single gloves, masks, and maybe face shields or goggles) with no
decontamination before their removal (for US healthcare workers).
Number 3 is what is insane and terribly dangerous to our healthcare workers.
And now the idiot in chief at the cdc says once again they are changing the protocols. Guess since the horse is already out of the barn…..
Here is a somewhat surprising admission from a mainstream outlet that maybe we’re not totally deluded crazy and they really are out to get us, surprised it even got published but apply it to the raw milk world:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html
You can have all your “novel milder treatments” but don’t push it on us we won’t buy it never did never will, there is no such thing as “free of pathogenic microorganisms but retains the protective agents found in fresh milk” just good sanitation and btw, have you heard that shit is the new gold? Smear this:
http://www.boston.com/health/2014/10/15/poop-bank-massachusetts-will-pay-you-per-dump/FMMhBXMKyFNTRXKoThmnpM/story.html
I would suggest that Dr.Loss is begging industry for a new “novel” type of processing to assure low risk raw fresh milk….this process has not been discovered. That is why it is still considered novel.
I would argue passionately, having just returned from the IMGC Internationsl conference in Arhus Denmark, that in fact, there is no new novel processing methods on the horizon…none.
The idea that heat or pressure processing will preserve life when their intent and design is to smash or cook life to death is an oxymoron. It is not possible to put a spirit back into a dead body.
The pathway to safe fresh raw milk is RAWMI science. That means that the “novel approach” must be based on prevention and conditions that preclude pathogens. That means RAMP and testing of things like milk filters!!! I spoke with many of the leading researchers in the world about raw milk. Everyone of them shared that the greatest impediment to widely consumed raw milk is: processors single minded concept and their investment in high temp heating as the sole remedy to pathogens.
When RAWMI standards and resulting test data are compared to the FDA “five log kill” ( ie pasteurization ) Listed farmers archive better than 5 log reductions by direct measure of counts. Zero is better than FDA mandated five log reductions. Pasteurization is a risk reduction and not a certainty…just like RAMP is a risk reduction!!
Experts at the IMGC asked the attendees ( mostly processors )what they wanted the research world to do for them. I stood and made some remarks and asked that an investment be made into rapid testing to allow definitive rapid tests to be performed to identify pathogens or the conditions for safe raw milk. You could hear a pin drop for fear of grant funds being pulled by the processors that filled the room.
This is a Money Thing!!!!
In the final assessment, those in the pasteurized milk community must come to realize that heat and processing is destructive….very destructive. It renders milk toxic and highly allergic. It is no longer useful as baby food when raw milk is an excellent replacement for breast milk after six months or so.
Mary, one of the PhD researchers from Ireland said this: ” pasteurization totally destroys everything”. His job was to try and bring it back to life and he said that this was not possible even though millions are being spent in the attempt.
There are more than 2100 proteins found in raw milk….all of them denatured and destroyed under the heat of processing….all of them. You and everyone in the anti raw milk world must start to listen to the best raw milk scientists. They are all saying the same thing…”raw milk is the gold standard and processing destroys all the essential good stuff” this was repeated, over and over at IMGC.
I also heard this many times….this is all a money and grant thing. If industry wanted safe raw milk…it would have happened long ago. Industry “wants to keep raw milk cheap and wants long shelf life”. To mention digestibility and allergenic status of processed milk products is just to inflamatory to speak off.
Remember the closing comments at IMGC:
1.” How could scientists be so wrong, but thought they were so right when they proclaimed the low fat diet to be so good for America”. When now we know that animals fats are critical to health and sugars and processed carbs have brought on diabetes and obsity!!
2. “Could scientist be repeating this same mistake by trying to add back into processed milk the vital elements found in raw milk!! ??”
Raw milk is on the right side of science and the right side of human nutritional history. That I know for sure!!
It is about time we recognize that the data that flows from Listed farmers proves thst it is incredibly safe and archieves and over achieves the five log reductions mandated by FDA protocols. Lastly….pasteurization is no promise of safety….remember the recent Cornel study by Dr. Nicole Martin. High temp processing is damn dangerous with 670 deaths per year expected!!!!! ( conservatively )
If a conscious person looks at this picture, they would conclude that those that hate safe clean raw milk have either lost their minds or they are paid off to bash raw milk. Mary..time to get on board with RAWMI type protocols and get on the right side of history. The data and science is becoming crystal clear. Also remember, PHDs can not get papers published if they do not conditionally slam raw milk as they speek out if the other sides of their mouths and sing its praises…
Truly, a pathetic surrender to processors and agencies that cavort with them. This is how pathetic the science has become. What ever happened to ethics!!? It is bought and sold along with grant money and the paychecks of the researchers. The best babies food be damned.
What do you mean? RAWMI farmers are getting > 5 log reductions comparing what to what? (considering you have no start/end point as in pasteurization) Are you saying that RAWMI farmer’s milk has as few measurable bacteria as pasteurized milk?
http://www.ciriscience.org/a_107-What_is_Log_Reduction
Ken
“TransCanada and Department of Homeland Security keep close eye on activists, FOIA documents reveal ”
“…the Bryan County Sherriffs Department had been spying on a Great Plains Tar Sands Resistance training camp that took place from March 18 to March 22 and which brought together local landowners, Indigenous communities, and environmental groups opposed to the pipeline….
organizers at the meeting went to great lengths not to give police any cause to disrupt the gathering.”
“The infiltration of the Great Plains Tar Sands Resistance action camp and pre-emption of the Cushing protest is part of a larger pattern of government surveillance of tar sands protesters. According to other documents obtained by Earth Island Journal under an Open Records Act request, Department of Homeland Security staff has been keeping close tabs on pipeline opponents and routinely sharing that information with TransCanada, and vice versa.”
“The new documents also provide an interesting glimpse into the revolving door between state law enforcement agencies and the private sector, especially in areas where fracking and pipeline construction have become big business.”
“…Of course for corporations like TransCanada and Anadarko having law enforcement on their side (or in their pocket) is more than just a good business move. It gives them access to classified information and valuable intelligence essential weapons in any counterinsurgency campaign.”
taken from: http://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/elist/eListRead/undercover_agents_infiltrated_tar_sands_resistance_camp_to_break_up_planned/
The above statement assumes they have adequate knowledge to determine what the protectants are. What about how they interact with all the other ingredients in raw milk, including our digestive system after we have drank it? They are grasping at straws and their narrow focus on specific ingredients (protectants) is merely a continuum of their obsession with control. This entrenched mentality causes them to overlook the immune systems complexity. They of all people should no better!!!
What are the implications of feeding raw milk or any food for that matter if an infant is subjected to antibiotics or to multiple disease antigens and chemical toxins found in vaccines etc.?
The article goes on to state, Feeding young children with cow’s milk is also contentious because it can provoke allergic reactions.
How do they know this to be true? I would think that it is much more likely the casein, lactose, lacto albumin, peanut oil and antibiotics etc. injected into infants via vaccine preparations is whats sensitizing and nurturing allergies in children, not the foods themselves.
Ken
When Odwalla produced retail ready raw orange juice back in the 1990s they used an FDA approved protocol that provided credit for practices ( pathogen reduction and HACCP, SSOP stuff , basically RAMP for juice ) that started at the field and ended in the juice bottle. All credits were then summed up and calculated to create an equivalent to pasteurized processing risk reduction. That is what I mean.
When the end point of pasteurized milk is calculated and measured by bacteria count it looks like less than 10 coliforms and less than 15,000 SPC. Those are the measured standards by PMO.
By direct measure RAWMI blows this end measurement away.
RAWMI Listed dairy farmers average about 2 coliforms and less than 1500 SPC. Of course there are a few exceptions to this very low level of counts….but, those exceptions are rare ( are immediately corrected ) and do not result in illness or presence if a pathogen. The “Grass to Glass” RAWMI Ramp system results in a calculated risk reduction just like the FDA created with Odwalla ( this FDA deal with Odwalla lasted a short time and was discontinued ). We must all remember that pasteurization is no promise of perfect and the expected and known side effects of pasteurization are massive and include at least 8 childrens deaths due to allergenicity alone since 1998 ( these desths were from perfectly heat processed milk). Pasteurized milk is also not digestible by babies and most children ( quote from IMGC PhD ).
All of this rational arguing falls on paid-off ears and is my best effort to stand up and simply state the obvious facts ….”the emperor is ugly naked”. Dollar voting by educated consumers and consistent production of safe raw milk will be the machine of change. Industry and the CDC and FDA could careless and have been remarkably unethical at a time when they should be following the rest if the world and seeking knowledge that includes investing in alternative concepts and rapid testing technologies to provide evidence of raw milk safety!! Pasteurized milk sales dropping at 4.3% per year is the clearest indication that this 100 year grand experiment has failed miserably.
“Domestic Surveillance and Covert Disruption of Dissent…
The principle goal of the intellegance (sic) community is to protect the interests of transnational corporations. Members of Congress, journalists, lawyers and government officials give the impression that domestic surveillance is harmless and limited to the investigation of terrorism, but the truth is that federal, state and local governments are working in cooperation with corporations and private associations to investigate and disrupt Americans opposed to the policies of the Obama administration and their corporate friends. They are spying on grandparents, students and other regular Americans just like you and me.
The common narative about the use of covert intellegance activities to spy on American citizens will remind the public that the F.B. I. had a program called COINTELPRO but that it stoped in 1971. After the COINTELPRO program was closed down the F.B.I. respected the civil rights of all Americans and this lead to the tragic events of September 11, 2001…
But as you will see in this article “the guidelines first put in place after the COINTELPRO scandal investigation ” were ignored from the start. Those of us that have been organizing peaceful protests in America during the 70s, 80,s and 90,s experienced the same infiltration, monitoring and dirty tricks used during the COINTELPRO program. We didn”t ‘fear that someting like COINTELPRO may again be at hand.’ It was clear that the COINTELPRO program had never stopped…”
taken from http://www.foodnotbombs.net/spy_1.html
People, please understand that peace groups are a threat to the War business, environmental groups are a threat to Big Oil, and the health benefits of raw milk are a threat to the multinational Pharmaceuticals (the Sickness Industry). I get no great joy out of repeating these things, and I don’t dwell on this stuff. I try to focus my life on good things, building the good. But sadly, it looks like most people in raw milk are unaware of the hard lessons so many activists have learned, that show us how the govt deals with threats to the big money interests that control it.
We don’t need to reinvent natural farming to deal with govt stunts like Foundation Farm, the Kentucky incident, Mary Martin McGonigle, the Family cow … We need to simply learn history, and teach teach teach the younger people that there is no need to take seriously anything the govt or media cartel claims about raw milk. There is plenty of real world evidence available to show us the truth. Looks like raw milk may not be around much longer in Illinois, and if that happens, I will not only blame the horrible people in the secret government, but also all the childishness I see among so many raw milk supporters
For example “Pasteurized milk is also not digestible by babies and most children IMGC PhD” is plausibly believable by a raw milk advocate such as myself, but I’d sure like a little more evidence to go on before repeating it and I havn’t the faintest idea who IMGC is.
When I am invited to sit down and have lunch with the PhD’s that form the very basis of the International Milk Genomics Consortium and they ask me to not mention their names in public because they will lose their grant funds from big dairy….I can not give my sources. They love raw milk and they also like their jobs!! perhaps you should view the Food Forward video again. The link was posted here several times.
Quote…..the PhD that does research on babies in the hospital at UC Davis told me…pasteurized milk is not digestible by babies or young children because babies and young children by design and the immaturity of their digestive tracks must have a whole food that contains bacteria, enzymes, and the thousands of proteins and the million fractions contained in raw milk ( Breast Milk ). Their digestive tracts are not mature enough to digest a partial food. These are my words but they are close enough to be quoted as spoken to me by the most knowledgable PhD’s in the world on this subject.
I have made it my business to get inside the research tent and listen and participate both here and internationally. You have to trust me on this. These PhDs are very very frustrated and simply can not come out for fear of job or grant loss. If you want to call me I will share with you their names and their titles, but I can not share here becuase I respect them and would lose a hard earned relationship.
Tom, as far as Illinois goes, I would advise you all to organize yourselves behind your farmers. Get huge numbers of people out to the hearings on these new rules, inundate your political representatives, raise money to support farmers who may be shut down, plan a strategy of support if they go after a particular farm, and in general make enough noise that they know they don’t want to mess with you guys. I know there are a lot of people who are very upset about what’s happening in Illinois, and they’ve succeeded already in pressuring the public health people away from a ban. The big thing is that this all has to happen on a local basis to be meaningful to your local powers. They don’t want to mess with the people on food, and they’ll tell their handlers at the FDA that. They are basically cowards, but you have to bring big numbers of noisy and determined people to make it happen.
The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund has a number of actions Illinois residents can take.
What amount of sustained funding is needed?
There is no just law that dictates we undermine basic health with our taxes just as there can be no sound judicial opinion once having left off the bases of our civilization to become a jeering mockery of law, in power, a bludgeon of commercial interests. Any elected executive in the traces of these two corruptions is, is what? Anybody? Certainly not worth re-electing. Appealing to a body of corrupted law for continuance of same is not the road for me. Your vote is a great power. Not to be left fallow.
Time to withdraw funding from one area and to fund another. With prejudice.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
p.s. Keep those sources confidential to keep those sources. Their call anyway, isnt it?
http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/
A slow boil cooks all froggs for health’s sake but it’s all deadness in the end nobody survives but at least you can be healthy while alive if you want.
Have a good day
Cisco is NOT it
You missed the point. It is not me that would starve or have to look for a new job. It is the researcher PHD that would be looking for a new place to work!!
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Beware_the_Corporate_Takeover_of_Seed.php
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb3iPP-tHdA Annie rules
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjPTUC_tyq4
I maybe be too many times but I’m just a sorry goose
Where were you, 3 decades ago, back when my friends were getting their heads busted, dragged off to prison, asserting those antique notions on the frontlines of the anti-abortion thing, as the nightmare of the present police state descended upon Ham-merica ?
compared to which … this Campaign for REAL MILK is just a walk in the park
hint : see the bundle of rods on each side of the Speaker’s Chair in the House of Representatives = the very symbol of fascism has been there for 80 years, and it wasn’t put there by accident
Without freedom to choose our foods, there is nothing.
Indeed, that would be strength in numbers.
what I was trying to say ( with my limited command of the English language) is that you have an awful steep learnin’ curve ahead, if you still believe in the Disneyland version of “rights and freedoms”.
my cynicism arises from about ~20 years at this raw milk thing. in which one of my trophies is ; the comment by Madame Justice Risa Levine that I am a “long-time political activist”
I suggest that – first, read what I said, again, and see if you can figure out what I actually said, versus your prejudice. then = get back to us on this forum, if and when those super-sensitive corners get knocked off your Bad-Attitude feminist pre-disposition
The real women I know – especially the real ladies I admired from the last generation – know their place in God’s order and are content with it. To girls like you, they’d say “God loves you and there’s still time to change!”
when my grand-daughters are old enough to handle this issue, I’ll be adamant to dissuade them from killing a child in their womb ; for her own bodily health, if for no other reason. Back in 1994, Dr Joel Brind’s meta-analysis of the correlation of abortion-on-demand with the rise in breast cancer, was as convincing as it gets. But that hard science never made a whit of difference in the overall Pro-life thing. We moral conservatives were then deluded, thinking a woman in distress would be moved by arguments about ‘safety’ 20 years in the future. What we now know, is : the conscience of the nation was cauterized by communism in drag, aka ‘feminism”. Cf. the brilliant work of Dr Henry Makow
from warmonger FDR, on, the commies subverted the rights and freedoms which had been written-in to the original Republic … eliminated by the truncheons-to-the-heads of anti-war protesters in the 60s, and the ‘no-free-speech-zones’ around abortuaries, a generation later. 13 years since that day, anyone who still believes that a couple of aluminum airplanes took down the World Trade towers ( 3 of them) is asleep. That Crime of the Century was pulled off so that unapologetic fascism could be imposed on
American. The milk thing is just the tyrant toying with us, as part of the greater agenda to destroy Christians
I don’t apologize for being blunt to newbies. My role is to give this little girl, coming-along chirping vacuously, a history lesson so as to get her up to speed.
>>>> worth noting that, in his top item today, Mister Gumpert ( himself one of the members of the Establishment / published in Business Week etc ) is waking up to the un-deniability of THE conspiracy.
Let’s sort out some things you say, Gordo. Yes it’s true commercial airliners can’t really outfly F-16s, only in the make believe world of tv news and govt propaganda. And for a second plane to hit the same target over fifteen minutes after the first, when an F-16 out of Minnesota could have intercepted that second one, going at buster speed, yes as one airmen says, you’d have to be mentally retarded to believe the government’s story.
But no need to keep weaving your abortion theories into the raw milk discussion. One day you are going to figure out that the Creation is a Work. Things go wrong when you are doing a Work. Unwanted pregnancies are an intruder in a person’s body, similar to spirit possession. If you are able to, you remove the intruder. Not everything that happens is some divine plan like you think. Taking away women’s right to do what is best is evil.
You like to talk about Wilhelm Reich. You should at least read his writings. He says that sexual repression makes people violent and neurotic. Who are the biggest cheerleaders for all these scam wars? The sexually repressed crowd, the Sean Hannity’s, Bill O’Reilly’s and the rest of those degenerates. You need to connect with your sexual feelings so you don’t have all this hatred for diversity and happiness in others.
“Few men can handle prosperity. Another man’s that is.” Mark Twain
So, you believe then that women are inferior to men? Or the other way around?
your take on artificial abortion is wonderful for how it exalts death in place of life … so perfectly replacing right with wrong. How much first hand-experience do you have on that topic? Until you’ve been through a pregnancy of your own child, you’re ignorant about where babies really come from. And since you use Wilhelm Reich as a reference, you can be sure he’d be the most vehement anti-abortionist, all. Call up his son, Peter, in Rangely Maine and ask him. The most important thing to know about Wm Reich, is ; a week before he died in Leavenworth – having been installed there by the FDA for telling people the Truth – he declared Jesus Christ as his Saviour.
As the God of Israel puts it : “All they who hate me, love death”
I, too, was programmed to believe all that crap~ola about “equality”, til I found out how it was contrived by the Freemasons, to further their agenda to make the planet into one gigantic beehive, in which the workers are so happy in their ‘equality’, whilst the controllers smugly treat them as ‘identical’ cattle.
Old Groucho Marx said “who ya gonna believe … me, or your own eyes?” Meaning = your own experience tells you human beings are not equal. And the notion that people are ‘equal in the eyes of the law’ ? Don’t be ridiculous…. go in and get some first-hand experience in the playground of the cult of the Black Robe, and you’ll soon find out how far-removed THAT is, from reality. so my answer is : “No”. Women and men are not equal. I strongly recommend you read the Bible, and ALL of it, to find out how our God orders His Creation … there are different rules for different roles.
Confer with Animal Farm … it’s no mere child’s tale… the controllers absolutely GLORY in their hypocrisy.
Incidentally, Ora, as to being censored from it … I seem to recall that at least 3 times, you’ve been us all a final (?!) good -bye saying you were going to go home and pull the covers over yr head. Was that just on days when you’d been smoking too much dope? Tell you one thing I did learn about 40 years ago = you practice being stupid – smoking dope – and you’ll get good at it.
The “Democrats” and the “Republicans” (or whatever they call the “two choices” in Canada) are controlled by the same global government, behind the scenes. It’s called “Heads they win, tails you lose”.
“How much first hand experience do you have on the topic?” I have first hand experience, and I’m sure glad it was available, or my life would have been ruined. Your fatalist theories, that everything that happens is some divine plan unfolding (fate). would not last long if you spent some time in the third world. You’ll see young women walking around in the ghettos, pregnant, they look spaced out because they are, from mineral deficiency, all these deformed people, … and if that young woman has that kid there’s a real good chance it’s going to be born severely deformed. Anyone that would block that women from doing the right thing, stopping the process, when she can’t even feed herself properly, anyone that would force her to have a kid is doing evil. There are things that are meant to be, and things that aren’t. Someday you will figure this out.
You’ve figured out that the government they gave you is corrupt, and the media is corrupt, and the schools, and the monopoly corporations… someday you will figure out that the religions they gave you are false also.
Your naivity reminds me of the commie propagandist on this forum, namely Bill Anderson : whose censoring is un-lamented. He and his ilk, go on about “caring for the next generation” … meanwhile propagandizing the deadly duo = the murder of the child in the womb + buggery. Such people have an inordinate love for ‘humanity’ … it’s real live people, especially little babies, they cannot stand. Which is why they find themselves alone and childless in a tragic old age. Wasn’t it Wm F Burrows who said ‘there’s no fag like an old fag’ ?
There are some ‘conspiracy theories’, for which there’s an awful lot of hard evidence. For immediate shock value, the best example, being : National Security Memorandum 2000, composed in 1976 by Henry Kissinger et al. ( the original Dr Strangelove) It tied American foreign aid to the availability of abortion on-demand. Of course, legalization of homo-sexualism, goes hand in-latex glove with it. whatever will you do, Tomm, when it dawns on you that that policy is the very definition of “genocide” and that you’re one of the fools who bought that Big Lie?
I know all about babies, I grew up in a house with 11 people. I knew that it was not my job to add more babies to this overcrowded planet at this time. It is the job of some, but very few. Btw the world’s biggest anti choice group, the Roman catholic church, why don’t you look into how much in property taxes they pay for their billions of dollars of real estate holdings. I think it’s zippo. Doesn’t exactly fit with your foreign aid theory. While you distract everyone with false crusades, Big Brother only gets stronger.