Raw Milk “Inherently Unsafe” Says Unbending FDA in Slamming CA Legislation

When the U.S. Food and Drug Administration says raw milk is “inherently unsafe”, it means inherently unsafe. As in nothing to discuss about California’s so-called Home Dairy Bill (AB2505), which is intended to formalize private sale arrangements for the state’s smallest dairies.

The FDA has weighed in on the bill via written testimony for a hearing on the bill being held tomorrow (Wednesday) before the California State Assembly Committee on Agriculture. Not only does the FDA see absolutely nothing positive in the proposed legislation but, typical of the agency’s reclusive dairy director, John Sheehan, no one from the agency will be in attendance, presumably for fear of having to answer questions about the testimony.  

The 21-page Sheehan  testimony is mostly a repeat of studies and opinions used at other state legislative hearings, going back a half dozen years now. Every year or two, Sheehan updates the thing here and there, so that by now it is nearly incoherent. But here are a couple of items that appear to be new, including: 


-A warning from the FDA that Home Dairy Bill (AB2505) will "distance" the state from the big boys in Washington: “Assembly Bill 2505 significantly relaxes the current regulation by allowing the exchange, sharing, and direct sale of raw milk at ‘home dairy farms’. Allowing any type of raw milk sales directly to consumers does increase the probability of serious harm occurring to California consumers, especially children, the aged, infirm and immunocompromised, and this bill would actually increase the probability of a state- wide outbreak occurring within California. Assembly Bill 2505 also would significantly distance California’s regulation of raw milk from the advice being given by the CDC, FDA, and many notable others.”


-Sheehan repeats his criticism of one of the European studies on raw milk, the PARSIFAL study, for supposedly not specifically examining raw milk vs pasteurized milk, but he conveniently ignores the more recent, and more tightly controlled, GABRIELA study of more than 8,000 European children. That study specifically concluded that raw milk provides “protection” from asthma and allergies.

-There is no mention of the three Massachusetts deaths  in 2007 from pasteurized milk, nor of deaths from pasteurized cheese last year and this year.

-While Sheehan somehow missed the GABRIELA study and the pasteurized milk and cheese deaths, he does manage to include two recent studies sponsored by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC)—the one that argues raw milk is 150 times more dangerous than pasteurized milk and the other out of Minnesota that says there were actually more than 20,000 illnesses from raw milk 2001-2010 instead of the 21 reported. 

-He ignores the two-year-old Raw Milk Institute (RAWMI), except to criticize it by implication. “The notion that compliance with quality standards means that raw milk is safe is not a new notion. “ He alleges that “certified milk” from last century had frequent problems with pathogens. 

-Several times he points derisively to an unnamed “raw milk advocate” claiming that raw milk counteracts lactose intolerance, helps build immunity, and other benefits. You get the feeling he is genuinely pissed at this individual, or the many many individuals this might be. 

-He ignores the reality that millions of people are regularly consuming raw milk without any kind of illness. This is something he might have been questioned about….if he would have bothered to show up. But, of course, that would have been more seriously high-risk than any raw milk he worries about. 


Here is information on the California Home Dairy Farm Raw Milk Safety Act (AB2505) and whom to contact to express your support. Supporters are encouraging people from outside California to call and write in, given that the Washington in the form of the FDA has intruded itself. 

mark mcafee's picture

Sheehan has made his opinions irrelevant. When a person and organization refuses to acknowledge the slightest morsel of peer reviewed internationally published research evidence, this is a very clear sign of desperation and isolation. I also might add.....distance from reality and real American consumers. At some point, Sheehan will resign and go work for Deans Foods under his golden Food Inc Parachute and a new face will take his place. This new face will then negotiate a new position and struggle to save face for the incredibly out of touch and Food Inc blind FDA.

When your paycheck requires blindness.....you will be blind.

I wonder what it is that we did to piss him off? What part of RAWMI success got his goose? I have repeated invited the FDA to share in the discoveries made by RAWMI and others. Is it that really sore spot....of fluid pasteurized milk erosion and 1-2% market loss? Is it that worrisome #1 spot that the FDA has given dead milk as the Most allergenic food in America? Is it that FDA approved technical methods can be used to rapid test raw milk samples to verify pathogen free status? Which one is it?? Or is it that raw milk displaces pharma drugs for Crohns?? And asthma and the Internet and FB pages are filled with heart felt stories of healing in spite of treacherous FDA warnings and dramatic videos that do not ring true?

Maybe it is the 9 deaths from pasteurized milk and cheeses in the last six years!! That must be it. Such a stand up honorable guy at the top of the FDA food chain must have nerves of steel....nerves so tough that it can withstand the truth and still tell a lie. What a tragic excuse for leadership.

Maybe...he is pissed because he reads this and spills coffee on his tie when he can not lash out.

Hey John, my 500 page Citizens Petition was delivered to congressional offices today....maybe that has you pissed.18 congressmen do not care what you say....maybe that is what has you pissed?

Just remember this, I am driven by a moral true north. Something you have no idea about. I will never stop perfecting raw milk food safety and I will not ever relent in my exposé of FDA Food Inc corruption.

Yes....there is a distance between CA and DC. A distance you can not overcome. A distance you can not fathom or rationalize. If you want peace...invite RAWMI to the table and start reading and understanding research.

That really must piss you off....time to take that Golden Parachute offer and let some new face take the reigns. A new face that can read and reach out to CA and appreciate real discovery and progress. A new face that will be a bit more creative than to just deny and lie.

David Gumpert's picture

Mark, I think you've got Sheehan pegged. He is basically an errand boy for the dairy oligarchy. Oligopolies don't like to compete, so they focus on stamping out the competition. It has nothing to do with safety or health. It's all about $$$$. 

garycox's picture

it irks me that sheehan is being paid with taxpayers' dollars to spout his lies and spin. what a tragedy he is as a public servant. of course he knows about the deaths from consuming pasteurized dairy products. he's simply not mentioning them because it cuts against his argument.

if 9 million people drink raw milk in the united states, that's over 3.285 billion servings per year, assuming these people drink raw milk only ONCE per day (9 million x 365 = 3.285 billion). for 10 years, that would be 32.85 billion servings.

according to the cdc, 1517 people got sick from drinking raw milk from 1999-2008. so do the math. 1517/32.85 billion = .000000046%. that's 1 in 25 million.

where's the risk?

David Gumpert's picture

Now that the federal government has butted in on today's California hearing to allow home dairies to sell raw milk, supporters are encouraging Americans everywhere to phone and email their support of the legislation. Legislature staff contact: Laura Ayala, 916-319-2004, laura.ayala@asm.ca.gov. Better yet, fax the Agriculture Committee Assembly members (you can use free online fax services): FAX numbers for Ag Committee:

Yamada- 916-319-2104

Eggman – 916-319-2184

Olsen – 916-319-2112

Skinner - 916-319-2115

Dahle – 916-319-2101



D. Smith's picture

John Sheehan has to maintain his sinecure somehow. Jeepers, what do you guys expect of the guy?! (drag out the sarcasm emoticon here)

He repeats all the old data because that's all he's got - unless he delves into the world of exposing the numbers which also include safety stats for pasteurized milk - and there's no way he's gonna do that.

For all we know, he probably drinks and loves raw milk, he just can't say so.

Ken Conrad's picture

The Bundy family has run cattle on the scrubland since the 1870's, but in 1993, the government decided it "owned" the land and would start charging Bundy rent fees for his cows grazing on it. The Bundy family refused to pay the fees, so BLM went to court over the payments, and when that didn't pan out the way they wanted, they decided to unleash an army of heavily armed, militarized "soldiers" to lay siege to the ranch and steal Bundy's cattle.http://www.naturalnews.com/044654_Bundy_cattle_ranch_government_siege_mi...

Sylvia Gibson's picture

And the sheeple will continue to keep their eyes closed to what is going on. Some day, they may open one eye and see that they lost everything, they will then slam that eye shut and continue following like good little lambs to slaughter.

mark mcafee's picture

AB 2505 died a quick and public death a couple of hours ago. Why....it failed to build an alliance of all raw milk producers and RAWMI and argue the strengths of food safety!! It also died because the bill did not require transparency...it allowed producers to hide and not be tested validated or verified.

Just my humble opinion.

When we fight for raw milk we must all fight together.Small, medium or big...we must all stand together. I was aksed to not come to Sac and testify because big dairy pledged to go lightly on this bill if RAWMI and "little old me" was kept away. This was asked of me ( repeatedly ) months ago and I respectfully complied. From the beginning of the micro dairy working group, I always advocated for foods safety and open transparency. This was not something that the core micro dairies wanted or invited. When considering raw milk....big and small are one!!

Not a great strategy...they killed it because there was weakness in the fight. Also....one more time, this was a raw milk freedom bill. It was not a raw milk food safety bill. We know the math on who wins this fight. Freedom comes after food safety. Safety first and then we can and will have all the freedom we deserve.

I heard Mary testified and she asked the right question and demanded the right things...why not have registration and testing by the state? Why is there lack of transparency....??

The bill died...I am sorry for the exhaustion and all the energy it took to work on this. What a loss. But a lesson has been learned.

Raw milk will win as a food safety issue and will not win as a freedom issue. At least in CA.

I must congradulate Doniga for her great effort and getting a sponsor for her bill. Next time...it is a team sport and raw milk safety must and will be front and center. That is a winner and Mary Martin should testify for the bill and not against....all of the 80,000 OPDC consumers should also be invited to attend and etc....need I say more. Hang together and hang individually.
Never make deals with big ag....make deals to build alliances on your side. The others side is doing everything they can to make us go away....well, they sure did.


Mary McGonigle-Martin's picture

Thanks Mark, I agree that the issue here is raw milk food safety.

Shawna Barr's picture

AB 2505 has just died a swift and sudden death in committee. No recommended ammendments, no motion...just a big fat NO.

All the big guns came out and smelled the blood in the food-safety water. I believe Mark McAfee is 100% right. This war has to be fought on food safety. Big Dairy/FDA et al are about controling their markets, and they use the safety argument to beat back alternative venues (like direct farm to consumer milk). And they scare our elected representatives enough that they just nod in agreement.

We must demonstrate our ability to produce raw milk safely and responsibly. AB 2505 lacked any kind of state oversight. No requirement for reporting TB clearance, no required reporting of monthly milk test results, no inspection, to registration, and not training requirements for farmers. The Big Dogs ate it up, calling out every single weakness.

I'm warming up for the next round, with food safety blazing the trail for food freedom, instead of the other way around.

mfpellicano's picture

Shawna & Mark I hear you loud and clear! I was there this afternoon and believed in my heat of hearts that it would not pass for these various issues...BUT what incensed my spirit to no end was that they invited Mary et al, to SIT and gave her multiple minutes to testify a "mom's anecdotal evidence!" Where was the equal time??? All the drama she could muster...but was I allowed to do the same? NO! I was given 30 seconds! The committee didn't hear that I raised my profoundly disable daughter on farm fresh milk! And I am not a farmer...small dairy farmers fed my family because I sought them out for 34 years to make sure my children were getting fed nutritionally superior food. Today, my disabled adult daughter takes NO RX's and only sees the doctor for "Wellness Visits." To give Mary that kind of time to testify and not give it to me also IS NOT A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS! Can I assume that she is an INDUSTRY paid shill? (Please don't address me personally, Mary, because I will ignore you.) Don't take me wrong, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy a disabled child or a tragic accident to anyone's child, but to use an incident like this in a public forum without "equal time" given to another mom is simply using it in the game of "dirty politics." I hope the organizers of this bill learned a BIG LESSON today...IF you have a BIG POLLITCAL GUN to bring to the fight you shouldn't tell him to stay home!

Shawna Barr's picture

mf--You have to understand that the promoters of the bill decided who would testify for the bill, and the opposition decided who they would have testify against. Those giving testimony had to be arranged ahead of time. Yamada and her term chose who they chose, based on their strategy, and the opposition chose Mary and others. It was not the choice of the Assemblymembers.

Also, as hard as Mary's story is to hear, I think raw milk producers can benefit from hearing it. There is something to be learned from everyone. Mary can certainly speak for herself, but my understanding is that she is not against raw milk bans, at least in this state where raw milk is legal, but she does promote high safety standards. This bill did not meet her criteria for standards, and she gave some very specific examples of how she thought it could be better. That is much more than we got from the Farm Bureau, or the Big Dairy folks who just said no, and and offered not recommendations. I respect Mary for that.

mfpellicano's picture

Well then, Shawna, I guess the organizer's of this whole political charade that played out in the "halls of the people" choose their "game plan" poorly. I do hope then, going forward, that it gets the attention it deserves so that we will be able to feed our family's as we choose and not run around like I have been doing for the last 34 years "on the black market." Did I ever feel any danger? NO! Because I know what a a clean farm looks and smells like! The worst stench I have ever smelled, however, wasn't on a farm; it has been the stench of politics. You no idea how I rejoiced when OPDC was able to put decent dairy on the retail shelves. And even though today I belong to a herd share, I will never regret those early days of seeking out my own dairy sources...the one's I choose NEVER let me down.

mfpellicano's picture

Oh, and one more thing...you know when I "knew" this bill was going to die? Before the committee even started...because the Sgt.@Arms passed out a copy of Sheehan's letter! Isn't that subtle? As if to say, look people, we know what you're here for...BUT IT AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN!

Sylvia Gibson's picture

When a story is repeated often enough, it looses it's power to impact. They will need another boohoo story. Perhaps one more recent?

Word of mouth has power and continuing to voice freedom to choose what we consume, unjust behavior of the gov et al, and the toxins in mainstream foods will aid in the movements growth.

mfpellicano's picture

Thank you Sylvia, I needed that!

Shawna Barr's picture

In defense of the organizers, me included, hindsight is surely 20/20 when it comes to political strategy. Even though the bill died today, we cannot discount the victory that was won here. Pattie Chelseth is one of the bravest and most principled women I know...she's the epitome of responsiblity leading freedom. Doniga Markegard (mother of 4 and full-time rancher I'll add) has worked relentlessly to get this bill a hearing and has been an outstanding leader. Dialogue has been opened that wasn't not before happening. I believe the state of California understands that they have a problem with unscaleable dairy regulations. They also know that small herds are not just going to stop producing because the state tells them to, not without a fight. AB 2505 was rejected as the answer. So what now? We know a lot more about what will work and what will not in California, thanks to the hard work of these organizers.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

Pattie is awesome. Just as prohibition didn't work, banning raw dairy won't work either. The battle is far from over. Regroup and march on.

doniga's picture

A quick note since I am so exhausted from the last 2 weeks. I served the roll of facilitator between Small dairy herd FARMERS and policy makers. I did not make the decisions on the strategy of this bill, simply kept it alive for 3 years as we worked through the political process. I always put farmers first since we are the ones making the sacrifice. This was a consensus building process amongst the farmers and the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund who guided us 100% every step of the way through the drafting of the language and the strategy of the legislative process. Assemblymember Yamada and her staff were wonderful really stuck their neck out for this one as it is not common that a member will go against so much opposition. I was very happy at the end of the hearing because I was approached by several Assemblymembers and they all said that they look forward to revisiting a bill again next year. We got the vote of the Agriculture Committee Chair Susan Eggman, which was a huge win! To say this is a loss is not true. We laid the groundwork and exposed the opposition. I would have appreciated Mary’s comments during the last three years of writing this language, as she brought up some good suggestions at the hearing. I would hope that Mary could e mail me and set up a meeting to discuss how we can incorporate those changes in the language for next year and we can stand together in support of scale appropriate regulations for small dairy herds.
Thank you and Goodnight,

Shelly-D.'s picture

" I always put farmers first since we are the ones making the sacrifice"

Fair enough, and we all thank you for your hard and heroic work, but just a gentle reminder : without the consumer, the farmer would have no-one to sell to, and would go out of business. And we "raw milk parents and grandparents" aren't willing to sacrifice our childrens' health by going back to serving them cooked (pasteurized), processed, industrial milk. So we have much to lose as well. Sometimes consumers don't speak up, because they do not consider themselves to be "qualified" to speak, not being "experts." And the food safety community treats consumers like lab rats, so we eventually get used to being dehumanized and disempowered. But if you empower the consumer en masse in your campaign, you'll get a raging tornado that no legislator can stop.

doniga's picture

I think 100 + people testifying in support today certainly made a statement as to the consumer support. Thank you all for showing up!

mark mcafee's picture

Doniga you are so right....100 people showing up was awesome. It is a huge statement and screams volumes to WUD and the FDA, that consumers simply refuse to eat commercial dead milk!! In fact, the market watchers that promote Got Milk? Are surely taking notes. None of us can underestimate the value of the consumer outcry...even in loss, it is an undeniable message.

I deeply respect your courage and I am proud of your effort set against all odds.

There is already an emerging vision of what can be done constructively post AB 2505. I know that RAWMI has an open invitation to all raw milk producers regardless of size to become Listed. Being Listed adds the power of unity and the transparency of the public display of hard core food safety plans and verification test data. It is hard for any agency to attack "the near perfect and improving"...an attack on any RAWMI Listed dairymen is an attack on all RAWMI Listed dairymen. We have proven our safety and we are gaining the respect of PHDs, regulators, and even Mary Martin. The FDA wants no part of us. Big dairy would not dare. We dominate food safety and that is where we will win any battle brought to us.

We come in constructive peace....we are joined in the deeply constructive effort to educate all that do not understand safe raw milk...that means the regulators, the legislators, the media, the university system, the producers, and the consumers.

But if they come to harm us...any of us....they will have met their match. Their own failings will be their undoing. We at RAWMI know the deep weaknesses of the commodity pasteurized markets and their products better than the commodity markets know themselves. If attacked on the basis of food safety...we win!!! No one would dare attack those that have made a science of food safety. No one would dare to expose themselves to the public exposure of 77 deaths from guaranteed safe pasteurized fluid milk!!!

In the lonesome confusing unknown world of post AB 2505, I can assure you that it will be comforting to be in a community that fights together and have each others back...and have the hard test data to back up one another beyond reproach. If you want to hide...go hide. If you want join excellence, and a community that will stand with you and stand proud...join RAWMI. Guaranteed you will sleep better at night and your customers will also be very comforted knowing that they know, that you know, what you are doing and can prove it!!

Mentors are waiting at RAWMI. RAWMI is not me...it is we. We includes cow shares in CA, some are already Listed and ready to help right now.

The pathway to future food freedom is denying the FDA and others any grounds for argument on food safety grounds. RAWMI has made this a friendly science.

At the core of RAWMI is love, health and humanity. I will stop the sermon now...

Ora Moose's picture

Mark maybe I'm naive, but I expect that since you would be one of the people to gain most from winning local, state and interstate raw milk legal and political food fights, you might consider sponsoring, enhancing and influencing the pro-milk turnout at these events that would counter the few but loud nay sayers? You already have a well known commercial brand and platform in your farm website that could spearhead a much larger movement. I think I've heard you mention petitions before so why not take that one step further and get together all the people who are not only drinkers but would possibly also support the personal freedom cause just based on food right principles? Kind of the same concept as "medical marijuana." Who knows, if you offer Mary a couple of dollars more than "they" do she could change her tune. (Note: this is not a personal attack on anyone, I'm just using a well known name here to make a point.) And on second thought, maybe we could pool our funding one penny at a time to hire a good looking spokesperson to tell emotional tales of how their child's health was saved by switching to raw milk, seems there's a few of them out there that might even volunteer for that.


From the pdf document:

"one wonders whether children themselves would choose to drink raw milk if they knew that raw milk might make them very ill, cause them to lose their kidneys, or even kill them. Given a child’s enthusiasm for life, I doubt very much that they would."

... and they'd probably also never learn to swim, ride a bike or eat hamburgers.

"Permitting raw milk sales or the operation of so-called “cow share” schemes to occur within any given jurisdiction will not result in the maintenance or further strengthening of our food safety systems. To the contrary, permitting such sales and schemes will inevitably result in an increased incidence of foodborne illness."

Oh really... Based on just exactly what scientific evidence? Care to tell us about your "cow share" statistics and how they were gathered? I didn't think so.

Here's another number (for those of you that would sit under your car when it's lightning out,) from Mr Sheehan's own report:

"The highest age-specific mean annual incidence, at 13.2 cases per 100,000 population, occurred in children aged 3-5 years old"

... would equal .000132% risk and if that's the worst case, do you wonder why they don't publish the best or even average odds for the rest of us? Hmmm I bet the rate would go down drastically if they measured the risk for those over 100 years old since they would not be likely to be around long enough for counting.

As a closing remark I would like to express my thanks for the folks who have dedicated their time and resources like Mark, Doniga, Pattie, Shawna and many others I'm not even aware of. Please keep on.

Shelly-D.'s picture

Dear Mark, I truly love RAWMI and what you are doing, but can you please accept that there are women farmers as well as men farmers and that words matter? To use the term "dairymen" is like calling all dairy workers "milkmaids" or all laundry workers "washerwomen" regardless of gender. It implies that all farmers (or all farmers who count") who are listed with RAWMI are men. The term "men" excludes women, it is a leftover from the time that women were not considered human but were only possessions - first of their fathers before being "given away" to husbands - and not being allowed to vote or own property. It hasn't applied to women since the term "werman" dropped out of Anglo-Saxon as the term for male human being ("wifman" being for women).

RAWMI is charting an exciting new course in dairying and is making history in showing North Americans what Europeans have always known, that raw milk can be safe. So, i'd like to ask that RAWMI also considers charting a new course as well and including women as full members, not lumping us in as somehow being "men." How about the historic and neutral term "dairiers" or even "dairy professionals"? :)

Ora Moose's picture

I am deeply disturbed to get up this morning and learn of this outcome, but yet I do agree with others here that are calling it a learning opportunity for all. One of the first things that comes to my mind is that although over one hundred showed up, that seems measly to me in light of the comparison to the Foxboro turnout only a few months ago. Foxboro may be nationally famous due to the Pro NFL team that plays here but it is still a small town in a small state compared to Sacramento CA, and if we can hundreds to turn out based on sheer word of mouth... The first thing I would suggest that needs to be changed is that you left coasters need to get thousands not hundreds to show up. We are all consumers including the producers yet we can not just go to the store to pick up milk like you do, we have to get to the farm and perhaps that is why we appreciate it more. Maybe Mark could shut down his business temporarily for a week and just make cheese instead, to show all them people what it would be like to go without. I know, bad solution but you get my drift.

The other thing I'd like to point out is, as romantic as it sounds "to know we are right" on the food freedom front, the reality is that this is a POLITICAL and money fight and it will get twisted and decided accordingly. Start looking at winning the political side as well, and we'll be halfway there. Organize and make it a screaming main point as to where your dollars and votes will go, they understand that language. Get the turnout numbers way up and it will be noticed exponentially, it worked here and looking back having our little town meeting rescheduled was a blessing in disguise as we tripled our numbers.

Here's some nice interesting numbers that Gary tossed out recently:

according to the cdc, 1517 people got sick from drinking raw milk from 1999-2008. so do the math. 1517/32.85 billion = .000000046%. that's 1 in 25 million.

where's the risk?"

Sylvia Gibson's picture

Good points Ora.

"Organize and make it a screaming main point as to where your dollars and votes will go, they understand that language. "

Besides teaching safety to farmers and consumers, teaching how mainstream milk (and other phoods) are processed, how the cafos conditions are, what they feed their animals, etc. will greatly aid in consumers rejecting the mainstream phoods to include boiled milk. Pictures say over a 1000 words... That will teach them to be more selective in what they buy.

Money talks and if the consumers demand with their wallets, then things will change. Also show them how these public people voted and what they voted for, show the consumers how those votes affected them. Show them what the options are come voting time. Word of mouth can be so much stronger than the written word.

D. Smith's picture

As long as it seems to be ok for the fda to transpose or ignore the numbers from the matrix of the cdc data, i.e., blaming raw milk where in fact they should be publically recognizing that pasteurized milk was at fault, nothing will change. If you want to deal in safety, and you think numbers are important, that's where you have to start. You have to FIX the wrong numbers being touted. As long as the pasteurized milk industry is allowed to get away with misconstruing facts and figures in a court of law, raw milk cannot move ahead. I don't understand why judges are not asking to see comparative figures. They obviously know pasteurized milk exists and that no food is 100% safe so shouldn't they be asking about this? If they're not asking, we have a problem Houston.

D. Smith's picture

There are still political people in this world who think our basic freedoms are important.

As Dr. Paul points out in this free commentary from the Ron Paul Channel, he was at first surprised that the liberals who had supported him on cannabis decriminalization did not support him on raw milk. They thought the government needed to control that particular “dangerous substance.” But eventually, he explains, they started coming to his position that one must have the total freedom to choose what to put in one’s body. Now there is a broader coalition supporting the right of individuals to consume unpasteurized milk if they wish.

Dr. Paul also discusses the disturbing shift in how the Constitution’s commerce clause is misinterpreted.
[end quote

Taken from this link - - - > http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/daniel-mcadams/keep-your-dirty-govern...

** McAdams doesn't comment on yesterday's doings in California, but maybe he hasn't had time to get anything written up yet. I assume he'll follow up at some point, and I hope Ron Paul gives it some air time, too. As much as it shouldn't be this way, it seems whatever happens in CA affects the rest of us to some degree. I wish what happened in Maine affected us to a greater degree.

mark mcafee's picture


You are correct, I will surely benefit from interstate commerce of raw milk....but so will we all. I just got an email this morning from one of our LISTED micro dairies in Oregon. She reports that she has literally hundreds of people in her waiting-wanting line for raw milk. She does not have the supply to meet and feed their needs.

She asked me to start a OPDC franchise in Oregon to help her feed the people. Well....I am not intertaining any thoughts of OPDC in Oregon. The retail sale of raw milk is not legal in OR at least not yet.

This just illistrates what a high demand there is for RAWMI type LISTED raw milk. When your raw milk is "very low risk" and your operations are fully transparent....people stand in long lines to get it!!

Ora Moose's picture

Mark, I am out of here because its' mostly a lost clause and I'm not in it anymore. Good luck

Gayle Loiselle's picture

Sheehan, and his golden parachute, brought to curtesy of a distracted, brainwashed, fearful society that has given up self-reliance in favor of over reaching government regulation in the hope of making our world "safe". Until we as a society admit that we have given up on the right to think for ourselves, that we willingly putting the fox in charge of the hen house in the name of advocacy and to ease the burden of risk assessment, as David put it in his last post, nothing will change. Most people in our society are quite easily manipulated; it starts in schools where kids are given text books that say things like "the greatest impacts of modern biology on society in recent years has been the genetic engineering of crop plants...", Holt Biology. Even college professors vehemently defend GMO's as the answer to global hunger - European cancer studies be damed, we have Monsanto's scientific research. And the FDA supports Monsanto, so it must be all good, right? So it's really no surprise the Sheehan's of the world grow up to defend industry sponsored propaganda and both support and create blatant lies regarding raw milk data and research while denying the facts with a straight face. Then of course there is the ever compliant media to help spread the word, but I digress.

I have come to respect and support the work of Mark McAfee and RAWMI. The painstaking work of gathering credible research and developing raw milk production safety standards and presenting those facts is essential for good legislation. Teaching farmers who need and want to learn these standards has the potential to not only grow raw milk markets but increase access to raw milk AND health giving nutrient dense food for so many more people. However, I think even Mark is becoming increasingly frustrated by a system of regulation that has shown itself to be not only flawed and dogmatic, but often aggressively abusive. This is why many small farmers go it alone, they have no trust or faith in the regulatory system, many of them for very good reasons. This is where food freedom and food rights activists enter the picture. Farmers, their patrons, and activists have tried in vane for years to comply, to find a way to provide raw milk legally, and to educate legislators and bureaucrats on the extremely low risk (1 in 25 million as Gary pointed out) of raw milk, and the very real curative properties and health benefits of raw milk. Maybe the CDC number crunchers cheated on their math exams and really can't figure out the actual statistics?? Even our judicial system is not immune to the influence and political power of the dairy industry. We have seen armed raids of peaceful farms and destruction of tons wholesome fresh food because big AG doesn't want competition. We have farmers and membership based food clubs prosecuted in the courts, we have breeds of pig outlawed, we even have ex-judge, Patrick Fiedler, (with a money trail to Monsanto) who ruled there is no constitutional right to own a cow, or to do business with a farmer, no right to produce or choose what we eat. Hmm, wonder if he ever read this little document called the Bill of Rights? This methodical erosion of our right to self-reliance equals such a great loss of freedom we as a society instinctively want to, and so do, deny it. How can American society founded on freedom end up entrapping its citizens with dependency? Our government is here to protect us; for the people by the people and all that, with the consent of the governed...we want life to be safe and easy, we want to be able to trust, we want to just go to the store and buy food and not have to worry if its good for us or not. We are so busy fighting over safety VS freedom, left or right, working to stay afloat, and carving out a life that we have gladly turned over the reins to the government to make the tough decisions, and make it all right for us. That has to change, we need to each take more responsibility and hold our government accountable.

So as D. Smith put it...we have to figure out a way to go sideways. We have to recognize we need both food safety AND food freedom; we cannot swap one for the other, we need both regulated retail available farm fresh foods AND unregulated private food choice. We have to accept there is more than one right way - like Mark's Organic Pastures, selling high quality raw milk in stores AND Vernon Hershbergers unlicensed, unregulated private food club that provides not only high quality raw milk but many health giving farm fresh foods, and a strong interconnected community relationship for its members. Both are highly successful, safe, transparent, fulfill a huge consumer demand, and enjoy enormous public support. But first, we need to put our government back to work for us; as a society we need to address the atmosphere of legislative royalty, the impression that elected officials have of themselves and their appointees that they have the last word regardless of the truth or public will.

Unfortunately, this will only happen the slow way, and with lots of open minded cooperation - the way activists have little patience for - we educate our children with the truth, not corporate sponsored text books, we don't accept teaching to tests, be a roll model...and inspire children to stand up for their rights and what they believe in. In that way we can take power away from the Sheehan's of the world when these kids grow up and take his place and reform our government. And in the mean time we support, acknowledge and respond to the needs and dedicated work of the activists, farmers, consumers, who put their lives, health, families and careers on the front lines of this battle for both food freedom and food safety. We absolutely cannot have one without the other.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

"kids are given text books that say things like "the greatest impacts of modern biology on society in recent years has been the genetic engineering of crop plants...", Holt Biology. "

How disheartening and scary. If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. I don't recall who said that but it appears to be very true.

D. Smith's picture

Well heavens, don't you guys know that GE'd foods are going to save the world?!


Yes, those damn anti-GMO activists are busy scaring the hell out of consumers and retailers . . .

The reader comment section shows just how sheepleized the world is becoming. I gotta say - if there's enough money floating from hand to hand it's possible to sell anything in our zombified society, especially bad ideas. Ditto for our zombified congresspeople.

mark mcafee's picture

What is the best and most respectful name for our awesome female dairy people ?

Shelly-D.'s picture

Thank you for asking, Mark, and for putting this question out there for our friends here to provide suggestions on. :)

What occurred to me is that ... could this perhaps be a difference between Canada and the U.S.? Every first year English course here in Canada teaches gender-neutral language, and even our government gives instruction on how to use it for those who have forgotten: http://www.noslangues-ourlanguages.gc.ca/bien-well/fra-eng/style/nonsexi.... Maybe the culture is different in the United States? I know that your nation does not have equal rights for women and men in your constitution, unlike Canada's constitution - and there are a host of spelling and word-use differences - so could this be a similar cultural difference?

Shelly-D.'s picture

My own suggestion, besides "dairier", is "dairy farmer" i.e. under B.C.'s "Milk Industry Act" Section 1 (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96289_01): "'dairy farmer' means the owner or occupier of a dairy farm, and includes the manager or other person in charge of a dairy farm..."

Or there's "producer" i.e. Alberta's "Dairy Industry Act" (http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/D02.pdf - "'producer' means a person who sells, or supplies for sale or processing, milk or farm-separated cream that has been produced by one or more dairy animals owned or controlled by that person.") Ontario's "Milk Act" (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90m12_e...) similarly uses "producer" ("'producer' means a producer of milk, cream or cheese; (“producteur”)").

Ora Moose's picture

How about fairy people Peter Pansters? Sorry too easy, and I'd be the first to admit our women often carry our torch in the darkest days. Derreire is is also too detrimental sounding and we would just like to have our moms and other women know just how much we really do appreciate them.. Thanks ladies you give us milk lifeforce and so much more more in physical and mental support ways, couldn't do it without you.

as for the distaff side of dairying ... native speakers of English don't have to think any farther than : "milkmaids" and "milkmatrons" ... of course, those classic, perfectly appropriate words are what proponents of gender-neutral New-Speak demand, upon pain of prosecution. And if you think I'm exaggerating, talk to my friend Bill Whatcott who just got his face walked-on by the Supremely Foolish Court of Canada, re, preaching what the Bible says about homosexuality.
... You can spare me the kneejerk comeback = nonsense about the importance of inclusive, 'gender neutral language' and all that flakey crap~ola. That's New World Odor propaganda - its proponents working hard to deny the brain function of discrimination, which is how we make decisions.
... the cattle know the differences between bulls and steers and heifers and cows, even as this society outlaws mere mention of it

Shelly-D.'s picture

I'm not denying that there are strong differences between men and women, Gordon. "Gender-neutral" doesn't mean "neutered." The phrase "dairymen and dairywomen" is perfectly fine, but i thought it might feel a bit long or wordy for some at 8 syllables. If anything, Gordon, "gender neutral" recognizes that there are two genders (not just one), and is inclusive of both, and isn't this a good thing? :)

Shelly~D ...I'm sure you mean well, but it sounds to me like you're 'way out in the sticks somewhere, out of touch the insanity of the Big City
...Obviously, you haven't heard about the proposal for "gender-neutral" public washrooms in Vancouver. AS IF there's no difference in the real world! I never claim to know much about women ... but I do know = that one won't fly. Ladies simply will not up with it put ... regardless of how much $$ the idiot social engineers throw down the rat-hole, pretending "we are all equal"

D. Smith's picture

You call them dairy farmers. Straight, to the point, and "gender neutral" - no one gets their toes stepped on.

Ken Conrad's picture

“Dairiers”… It sounds the same however the actual french spelling is “derrière” (rolling the r’s with your tongue) and can mean two different things. Apart from referring to a persons buttocks it also means “behind”, such as standing behind the crowd, behind the counter or behind the scenes.

Milkdarlins; (darlin, as used in the south to define ones politeness to a woman).

Milkgems (gem is also used to defined as a person or thing considered to be outstandingly good or special in some respect)


Charlotte Smith's picture

Well I can't speak for my fellow female listed micro-dairy owners, but I will answer to "Rawmi Listed Dairy Goddess" if you must.

Shawna Barr's picture

Charlotte, I was thinking Dairy Queen would work for me. :)

Edwin Shank's picture

Too funny Charlotte and Shawna! :)

Ora Moose's picture

My childhood memories of Dairy Queen are, of one the first artificial fake fast food food establishment franchises along with McD's not really something you'd want to be associated with unless you do and get paid. Things change but not that much and usually not for the better especially when corporations are in charge. But if you didn't know that, DQ does have a nice ring to it. Is it even really ice cream or just some fake lab produced shtuff that looks like implants are to women ( again not meant to offend anyone trick pony or not.) And hey the good news is, just go my 4-in-1 trees! http://www.fast-growing-trees.com/4-in-1-cherry-tree.htm and http://www.fast-growing-trees.com/4-in-1-apple-tree.htm Happy digging the weather's here!

Shawna Barr's picture

We're redeeming the Dairy Queen Ora. Funny story...we bought a new cow this fall, and she came with a number and not a name. So we thought it'd be fun to let our herdshare owners name her...or more specifically their kids. So by popular vote, our new cow was named "Dairy Queen." What can you do? I call her Queenie. But I can't figure out how to make her give that soft serve stuff....

Ora Moose's picture

Shawna, that really is funny. What was the number just for sake's sake? I like your DQ story a lot better than mine, and for some unbeknowst reason somehow this song reminded me of you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6erjP98F1w soft serve is how a lot of people perceived Fleetwood Mac, but way back before anyone ever heard of them they did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyTRxx1z35g

ingvar's picture

"Ms. Charlotte Smith, R.L.D.G."

"Ms. Shawna Barr, D.Q."

here's the URL link to presentations made last week to the Food Standards Agency in England, concerning raw drinking milk regulations.


more than a bit curious why the Dairy Farmers union showed up and OPPOSED raw milk being available, There, 50 million people have all the REAL MILK they want, yet no-one gets sick.
... in British Columbia, our Law & Equity Act - merely one of the foundational laws of the province, holds that "the law of England IS the law of British Columbia". Now if I can just make the idiots in high places in BC, play by the Rule-book, REAL MILK will be flowing shortly

Shelly-D.'s picture

Sorry to disappoint, Gordon, but I took a look and they've now put some qualifiers into that law - "Application of English law in British Columbia -- 2 Subject to section 3, the Civil and Criminal Laws of England, as they existed on November 19, 1858, so far as they are not from local circumstances inapplicable, are in force in British Columbia, but those laws must be held to be modified and altered by all legislation that has the force of law in British Columbia or in any former Colony comprised within its geographical limits." (http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96253_01#section2).

the key point you're missing, Shelly~D, is that, according to the British North America Act 1867, the system of representative government in the Dominion of Canada is modelled after the United Kingdom of Great Britain. The very most fundamental premise of which is : CONSULTATION WITH THOSE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY LEGISLATION. No small co-incidence that the very name of that foundational Statute was changed, for no good reason but to disguise the white Christian heritage of the nation
... If your interest is in constitutional law, I most strongly encourage you to start with the 1215 A. D. copy of Magna Carta. Notice that on the uppermost left, is the seal of Robart Fitz Walter, leader of the Barons in the civil war. At Runnymede, they made him stay on the other side of the river because he was so fractious, they feared new fighting would break out. Fitz Walter is "son of Walter", is Walter Son, is Watson = my kinsman. Some men are born for trouble as sure as the sparks fly upwards

mark mcafee's picture

Dairier.....doesn't that have the double entendra of meaning " your backside or butt??".I was trying not to be sexest....

Ora Moose's picture

Linguistics Aside I saw the back up he Kneejerk Comebackers eons ago with the Supremely Foolish Courjesters in an all-day show before the lights came on way before The Backside had a negative connotation.

Derriere was intentionally mentioned s'il vous plait and New World Odors sounds very much like like a GW utteration he was prone to spew unintentionally break out when the teleprompter malfunctioned.

We don't talk anymore, it's so funny


mark mcafee's picture

Hey Edwin,

If Charlotte and Shawna are RAWMI Listed Dairy Queens.....guess that makes you and I "Dairy Kings". I do not think I will go that far!! I am so humbled by all of this. The collective genius of RAMP systems and their results is like watching the Wright Brothers fly for the first time!! We are all making history and we are on the right side of history as we make it happen.

I have been getting calls from media that want to know the secret sauce of safe raw milk. The story is getting out and smart media is starting to inquire. As each month passes and more and more raw milk consumers and their markets buzz with joy and excitement, John Sheehans proclamations ring more and more Empty and untrue. I just really realized...the FDA just simply goes away under its own crying wolf voice....when we simply produce and provide safe raw milk...each passing month provides massive proof of our truth. I just looked up the stats on the decline and demise of fluid pasteurized milk sales....it is on a death spiral. Even the dairy experts predict that fluid pasteurized milk will die as a market. It is being overtaken by almond milk, rice milk, hemp milk, no milk,....and for sure raw milk!! Pretty darn soon....the FDA will not have a fluid milk market to preside over!! Then what will they do! Well, I think Kathleen Sabelious showed the way forward at the FDA. She resigned. I think John Sheehan has a job waiting for him at Deans Foods in their China based offices. When News 10 in Sacramento calls me and wants me in their studios to talk about raw milk for a special news piece about emerging raw milk markets....Sheehans is nearing his end. When the leading Dairy magazines writer calls and wants a feature story on the integration of conditions,technology and raw milk food safety systems....Sheehan is nearing his end. At some point....the truth becomes very loud and just begins to matter and the BS Food Inc garbage gets flushed along with 100 years of dead milk dogma. There are now at least five producers in CA that want RAWMI Listing. With the advent of additional RAWMI mentors, RAWMI Listing has lost its fear and friendly has replaced it.

What a great to be alive!!

ingvar's picture

Can the “little guy” produce enough (real) food to meet the need for (real) food? I think so.

But here’s a window on the intersection of the “big guys” and the (Federal) Government:
“Dianne Feinstein once canceled a fundraiser organized by the Podestas, the Post reported years ago, after she got wind that the invitation read as follows: “The prix fixe includes the Select Committee on Intelligence for the first course followed by your choice of Appropriations, Judiciary, or Rules Committees.”” [see below for the source of this quotation]

This system “works,” I think, if the Citizens of these United States routinely imbibe political sleeping potions so that that “humming along” we think we hear is really snoring. (Political sleep apnea is probably being addressed to head off the danger of having awakened citizens. “Ask your political practitioner if these political sleeping potions are “right for you.””)

The source of the above quotation re. Calif. Senator Dianne Feinstein is a column titled “Divorce Beltway Style” by Matthew Continetti in The Washington Free Beacon. The subtitle is “The Democratic breakup that exposes Washington’s rotten core.” It’s probably worth the time to read to take the measure of the situation we’re involved with.
The URL is:http://freebeacon.com/columns/divorce-beltway-style/

What, if I may ask, guarantees continuance of the political system described above?

Another question is: how fruitful a use of time is it to study, study, study all the commotions of banging into everything while trying to maneuver in an unlit area?

Better turn on the light first. If you have one. Some will have made “peace” with the darkness or hide under falsehoods. Perhaps refuges of lies will be swept away and covenants made with death will be disannulled in favor of truth and of life. My hope is certainly with truth and with life.

Switching topics, wildlife ecology and solar farms intersect fatally for the wildlife ecology, according to these two articles:

I would rather there were tens of thousands of Kid Creek Pastures than ill-advised boondoggles (Merriam-Webster: boondoggle “a wasteful or impractical project or activity often involving graft”).
Let’s say there are 10,000,000 dairy cows in these United States. This is a “big guy” number to be sure, as is the thought: “let’s see, if I can control 1,000,000 of those cows, how will I do economically?” Here, we’ve peeked into Goliath’s cranium, now let’s look at David: How many more economically thriving families and communities, cities, and counties would there be if done the way Gayle Loiselle pointed out above? I endorse what she said. Which is: Both, period. The result, I think, would be robust in terms of “security,” economies, and the sine qua non, quality of food stuffs.

When at the highest levels of our world, pride is the crown that is worn, we are in big, big trouble.
Pride, a crown worn only briefly.

We so did not create this world we live in so briefly ourselves.

Have a wonderful weekend everybody,
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard

D. Smith's picture

Well, the way Michelle Obozo has things organized, ANY small farmer could produce what it takes to feed the school kids! Of course, that's different than feeding the world, but still. Just take a gander at some of these photos. WHY does it show her (in the bottom photo) holding a basket of veggies - there's barely a veggie in sight on most of these trays. And 1/2 a kiwi?? Does she realize how small a kiwi is? Apparently not. According to the twitter posts included, the kids are not happy - and I can't say I blame them.

But get a load of what HER kids are being fed in their school situation.


Does the word PUBLIC, when used alongside the word school, have a different connotation for Ms. obozo? Looks like.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

It's amazing that they really expect kids to eat that crap.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

The schools in France serve really good food and they teach the kids about their foods. Lunch is not a rushed event. I see no reason why we cannot do this in the US. When I was in high school, you had 20 minutes to eat and that was it,, back to class.