I found myself laughing out loud when President Obama said, The government isnt listening to your telephone calls. The government just looks at phone numbers and duration of calls. What kind of phone call of what duration prompts a listen-in? And what about emails? More mumbo jumbo.
Americas media isnt sure how to report this story. A British publication, The Guardian, broke the story, and apparently resisted American efforts to prevent publication. Now the various American intelligence and enforcement agencies are banding together to figure out how the hell a British publication got hold of the story in the first place, so they can file criminal charges. You dont deal with the message, after all, you shoot the messenger. I saw the reporter, who broke the story, Glenn Greenwald interviewed and he said the source(s) come from deep within the National Security Agency (NSA). Good for him–great story. And apparently more to come.
Theres an excellent analysis in The Wall Street Journal, which points out all the inconsistencies in the government and media rationalizations. Its main point: History teaches that the temptation for the government to use information, once gathered, is irresistible.
I cant help but feel a sense of deja vu, knowing that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and state agriculture and public health agencies have been collecting names and data about raw milk drinkers and members of food clubs for years now. And theyve been using the data.
As just one example, I document in my new book, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights, how Los Angeles County prosecutors accessed the emails of several individuals associated with the Rawesome Food Club case–Victoria Bloch, Aajonus Vonderplanitz, and Sharon Palmer. In fact, the prosecutors asked a judge for a delay in lifting a seal that had been imposed on search warrant documents because, they said, there was such a huge volume of emails that they needed extra time to read them all.
We know that each time the authorities execute a search warrant on a farm or people associated with a food club, which has been quite a lot of times over the last five years, they grab first the computers and cell phones. Then those devices seem to disappear, never to be heard from again.
But at Vernon Hershbergers trial, we heard from a Wisconsin Department of Justice computer forensic specialist that he spent two full weeks or more, over a period of a couple years, going through Hershbergers data, even using specialized software to recover deleted emails so as to document that Hershberger told members of his food club that he had intentionally cut the seals and tape used by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection to shutter his farm on June 2, 2010. This was something Hershberger had told anyone who asked, including me, at the time it happened.
Its been fine for the authorities to go after farmers and food club members and dissect their business and private lives, with nary a peep. But now that its potentially happening to anyone–well, thats another matter.
There have to be some people in high places squirming just a little knowing that the gumshoes at the National Security Agency, and their pals at the CIA and the FBI are combing through cell phone records and emails, and likely their text messages as well, and sharing it among themselves.
The notorious head of the FBI for much of the twentieth century, J. Edgar Hoover, used to have to work to get the dirt on presidents and senators so he could blackmail them and get job security and whatever budget appropriations he wanted. Now, the spooks can just point and click and, presto, they can see whos talking to whom, and follow up with views of emails, text messages, Facebook postings, and such for any linkages that pique their curiosity. Hoover would appreciate the new technology.
Part of the reason its funny to hear Obama trying to reassure people that everything is on the up and up is that the spooks are no doubt monitoring his phone and texting. Obama has apparently never seen a security recommendation he didnt like, so the security people know they have free reign to probe, listen, manipulate data, to their hearts content. Maybe the apologists who claim those of us concerned about all the privacy invasion are just a bunch of conspiracy nuts will quiet down…and start looking over their shoulders.
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Wish I had been able to listen in on the calls being received by Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval the last few days, before he decided to veto legislation to legalize raw milk sales in the state. Promises of campaign contributions for a reelection campaign…or threats to choke off contributions if he signed the legislation? Promises of federal grants of various sorts? You know, in a state that allows prostitution and gambling that the governor couldnt have had serious concerns about peoples health.
Next place to keep an eye on for financial and political shenanigans in connection with raw milk is Maine. There. the state senate passed legislation to allow small producers of raw milk to operate without licenses, essentially replicating an important part of the Food Sovereignty ordinances passed by ten towns, and struck down by a judge.
**
Someone asked me what I thought would happen to Michael Schmidt now that he was convicted, together with Gordon Watson, of contempt of a British Columbia court. He was given a three-month suspended sentence, with the threat of three months in jail for the next violation.
My response was that Schmidt has been fighting this battle for nearly twenty years now–hes successfully maneuvered to keep the milk flowing for that time–with nary an illness–and hell no doubt figure out how to do it ongoing. I have a lot of faith in Schmidt, and his ability to do what needs to be done in the toughest of circumstances.
The Bovine has a good wrapup of the case.
Under this Exemption, the milk must pass testing ten times/yr., the farm’s water tested two times/yr., the milk/products must be labeled as specified and can only be sold from the farm, delivered or sold at a farmers market, always to the end-consumer. Milk sold wholesale or into distribution is NOT exempted.
The “Devil in the details” will be the RULES, yet to be written by the Ag.Dept. for “safe” milk. The bill’s language states this exemption is a substantive change and therefore proposed rules will require review and possible revision by the Legislature’s Ag. Committee. That means citizen input through our elected representatives AND at the future Public Hearing. We have our work cut out for us to keep the new rules honest instead of a backdoor way of turning this exemption into an exemption in name only.
Brainwashing our children? If it kills bugs and weeds, what does it do to the human body? Does no one in power ask these questions?
We live in a survalence state. Freedom in this country is long gone, most people just don’t realize it. Bottom line, if you communicate using technology, the government is getting it.
But at least we can hope things like this will wake up the people.
DISBAND THE NSA!
This is pretty much standard operating procedure and a very effective way to disrupt a business.
If you are a raw milk farm you must have: off site secure backups and full encryption on all your computers with 2 factor authentication. The former will get you back up and running quickly and the latter stands a good chance of foiling even the FBI, if done right, though likely not the NSA (not that I expect a raw milk investigation to draw those kind of resources, yet). And even if not it will at least slow them down.
*It’s really no revelation to anyone who’s been paying attention, but then for each issue there’s a sliding scale of what’s necessary to compel the attention of those who aren’t actively seeking real information. That’s part of the reason the Community Food movement needs a coherent, systematic PR campaign. We need that in order to find one another, to convert more and more farmers and eaters, and to educate the public, including just making them consciously aware that there does exist an alternative to industrial food.
(It seems that most people don’t really support corporatism, but passively accept it because they’ve come to believe the Big Lie, “there is no alternative”. But there are far better alternatives which are proven to work, not just in food but in every sector. The first step, along with recruiting activists, is to force into the public consciousness, basic awareness that the alternative ideas exist.)
As long as we allow the state to give us permission via license to sell our excess milk, then we allow it to turn what has been a Natural right for thousands of years – private contracts between consenting human beings – into a privilege, an “advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.”
Which can only be done by centralising and managing the movement. Which is a sure way to leash and control it; to co-opt it. This is a trap.
Compare it to growing broccoli. There’s general advice, and then there’s a whole array of regionally appropriate varieties and practices.
Anyway, exactly who is a freelance publicist like me “managing”? I publicize the idea on my own initiative. Anyone else can do the same, and the judgement of the people will decide which ideas, which writers, which groups they like.
1. The research and data does not support pasteurized milk
2. UC researchers are breaking away and one leading researcher will be testifying for raw milk at an official hearing coming up in less than a month
3. Regulators and government types are subject to and not immune to the auto immune and gut illnesses of he rest of society….when it gets personal, and medicine fails you, some are smart enough to do a simple google search for the best immune food on earth and cure their illness!!
4. Pasteurized milk markets are falling and dairies are going bankrupt. There are few things more compelling than economic failure to take heart out of any fight. Why would the FDA continue to fight for a product that is bankrupt with little consumer demand or support.
Raw milk sales are associated with truth….that truth can not be denied….sooner or later. I prefer sooner.
“Turnkey tyranny…”
There’s a remarkable interview of the operative who revealed the NSA secrets to reporter Glenn Greenwald.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video
Among his revelations:
“I had the authority to wiretap anyone.”
Why he came forward: “The awareness of wrongdoing builds up.”
Snowden represents the authoritarians’ greatest fear–that the consciences of their operatives will begin to get to them so badly, they won’t be able to continue with the abuses. His biggest fear isn’t for himself, but that “nothing will change.” Smart guy. Brave guy.
Sorry about that. I’ve corrected my link, so it should go right to the video interview. It’s remarkable, since he’s obviously a rational guy, smart, well informed, and has thought a lot about his action.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video
The National Security analyst has just placed his life on the line. Bless his heart and soul. We think raw milk is corrupt, compared to raw milk…. we know nothing of the NSA-CIA and their torture, renderings, coverups, Drone Strikes and killings.
I would have hoped that he thought of all of that first. Maybe he is somewhat suicidal. His bosses will black ball him into perpetual unemployment hell and that is a best case scenario.
I agree about the risk of whistle blowing, I’ve done some myself and there comes a point that you need to live with yourself and your conscience, then it blows over and is too unconscionable not to put out there even if it means your job might be on the line. There’s always other jobs that are easier on the psyche if not as profitable.
One aspect I’ve wondered about… do you or David feel threatened by the Government spying/scrutiny of your participation and comments in public forums? I’m glad I don’t fly anymore.
As Orwell might say, transparency and truth are for delusional fools that just don’t understand how things really work. Give me liberty or give me, ahh… raw milk and real food.
Mark, I have a sense Edward Snowden thought things out pretty well in advance. Maybe to the point of anticipating that if he goes on trial, he will be in front of a jury of his peers, and the government will need to disclose lots of information it would rather not disclose about even worse abuses than monitoring people’s calls and emails without effective oversight. An advantage over Bradley Manning, the Army guy who put out all kinds of classified data, but now has to face trial under very severe military rules (which highlights even more the courageousness of his actions).
Ora, I try not to think to much about putting myself “out there.” Maybe I’m being naive, but I have this feeling that enough people “have my back,” as it were. I also think we’re going to be seeing more people associated with food rights taking some brave actions, in the spirit of Snowden and Manning, going forward.
One thinks, for example, that he wouldn’t be the type to hand over customer records to the Food Police upon request.
http://rawmilkconsumer.ca/rebuttal-to-report-in-the-chilliwack-progress-newspaper/
A nit to pick…
You say, “…government will need to disclose lots of information it would rather not disclose about even worse abuses than monitoring people’s calls and emails without effective oversight.”
The problem is a lack of effective oversight?
http://eatkamloops.org/got-hair-cut-for-food-freedom/#comment-57032
I agree. When to tug-on supermans cape, when to run and hide and when to call a press conference is an art form.
I have found that being 100% legal helps to keep the target off your chest and holding your regulators to the grind stone is critical. You will fall victum to regulator mission creep if you do not. They tend to take authority in a vacuum. There must be a robust market population that is ready at a moments notice to hold the regulators accountable and that means a press conference and speaking truth to power.
There is a massive difference between Raw Milk vs. FDA food freedom fights and national security CIA NSA disclosures and secrets held at the highest levels. One is about moms and farmers and the other is about a intentional national paranoia and the cultures of militarism that drives the engine of profit for the biggest of our industries.
The President does not even know what raw milk is….we need to build big strong markets and use those successful markets in raw milk legal states to build jealously in other non raw milk states to create heat to forge change.
I would argue that food freedom is still a fairly fringe idea. Even though it drives our weak national agricultural economic engine and our entirely screwed up health care debacle.
Another interesting link that should be of interest to most of us:
http://foodfreedomgroup.com/2013/06/10/5-major-crop-pests-develop-resistance-to-genetically-engineered-seeds/
Makes me wonder what the long term exposure to “modern Bt crops” will be for humans, livestock and our pets. Will we become resistant too, and what other side effects will there be healthwise? I guess our children will find out…
That probably wasn’t the most elegant way of getting at the point I wanted to make. I appreciate that the government has to monitor various communications to try to anticipate terrorist threats. Part of what’s unnerving in this Edward Snowden affair is that the NSA has been monitoring everyone’s communications, without everyone knowing about it (or without almost anyone outside the security/govt elite knowing about it). His service was in alerting us. What Snowden is suggesting is that the monitoring that goes on should be something the public has a say in, and knows about. I would add that Constitutional guarantees should apply–for example, search warrants from open courts, not secret courts. The problem in entirely secret programs where everyone is fair game is that government operatives can go on with hunts (a la IRS, Associated Press, small farmers).
Sylvia, I presume you are referring to my new book, “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights”. I would expect different people will react differently to various depictions I provide. One thing I tried not to do was to ascribe guilt or innocence. Just the facts, ma’m. (No, it’s not that clear-cut).
Just to give you an idea of the different perceptions starting to emerge about the book, this from lawyer Amy Salberg:
http://realfoodlaw.com/2013/06/11/book-review-david-gumperts-life-liberty-and-the-pursuit-of-food-rights/#more-920
And this from food blogger Jill Richardson:
http://www.lavidalocavore.org/diary/5332/book-review-life-liberty-and-the-pursuit-of-food-rights
From your 2nd link:
“right of citizens to eat what they want,”
” and the right of citizens to be protected from fraudulent business people who are potentially selling dangerous products.”
The “dangerous products” is in need of definition. I think fast foods are dangerous as are the chemically contaminated foods, etc. Raw milk can be dangerous just like any other food. There is no need to single it out.
“Should you have the right to drink raw milk? Absolutely! ”
Agree
“Should I have the right to operate a filthy dairy with 50,000 cows up to their udders in manure and distribute their milk across the country under the guise that it is safe and sanitary and even healthful? ”
This is what the CAFOs do and they are “legal” .
The same goes for me. I could care less who is spying on me. I do not like the loss of personal privacy, but who has that anymore??? !! I have nothing to hide. I would love for the FDA to just sit down with me so I can educate them about their own NIH biome studies and explain to them that their war on bacteria is totally missguided and totally in error. Bacteria are essential to life and health.
if the FDA is spying on me….they are getting a dose of raw milk education all the time, cause that is all my emails contain and that is all that my calls contain as well. The FDA is wasting money if they are spying on me. The entire raw milk movement is desparately trying to communicate with the FDA, yet…if they are spying on us to seek out our communications, that is a measure of their culture. They are not really seeking information. They are seeking one sided power.
That is why I never shy away from telling them that as well. They are about as corrupt as an agency could ever be. That is their weakness not mine. They must watch their step….my steps are all open and honest. Their missteps will cause them grief…none of mine will. They are in trouble not me. That is the reason they demand closed secrecy…they are very affraid that someone like me will get their secrets and expose them for “their lies”. That is why they need secret programs. It is protect themselves…not me or the public.
It is tools like what the NSA has that has allowed them to quickly and effectually undermine, co-op and control these movements; even before they’ve made the news. By the time the average person hears about these movements the deal is already sealed.
It has to do no such thing. Most of the so called terrorist attacks were known about well in advance; often with government moles embedded. And most of the foiled plots were cases of government agents spearheading and inducing others to get involved. To the extent that there is a real and legitimate terrorist threat the death toll thereof is dwarfed by the annual deaths due to auto accidents and in no way warrants a loosening of our liberties, much less the erection of a comprehensive surveillance state.
We’re not talking about surveillance of known or even probable threats here; but a comprehensive surveillance state of every man, women and child. It has nothing to do with terrorism. It is a population management tool.
Why Privacy Matters Even if You Have ‘Nothing to Hide’ – http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
How NSA surveillance could have taken down the American revolution – http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/06/prism_metadata_analysis_paul_revere_identified_by_his_connections_to_other.html
the City of Vancouver pronounced as its official policy encouragement of “Meatless Monday”. Last Monday, a public demonstration of butchering a water buffalo, turned into more of a spectacle than its organizer expected. Sales at the West Broadway Meat Company were up 15% for the day, after protesters and tv cameras turned up. We see this same reaction to ignoramus-es in official-dom : the more they attempt to suppress it, the more people seek out REAL MILK.
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Margo McIntosh wrote:
Oh I LOVE that analogy! Are you on Facebook Gordon? There is a video that I posted that has a man in the US singing a song about being a raw milk moonshiner. It’s funny but packs a powerful message. I love that analogy too! If yo didn’t see it I put it on our website at this link. http://rawmilkconsumer.ca/call-to-action-for-raw-milk/ Sure would love a bumper sticker with “Raw Milk Moonshiner” on it! :0)
Margo McIntosh, RHN, RNCP, CGP,
Registered Nutritional Consulting Practitioner (Retired),
Canadian Consumer Raw Milk Advocacy Group
Weston A. Price Chapter Leader
On 2013-06-13, at 3:47 PM, Gordon S Watson wrote:
Margo McIntosh
see also the snide, ignorant! comment on “Barfblog” about Nadine
but it doesn’t bother me … I know that we’re at the stage where the adversaries’ nervousness causes to mock us. It’s a way for them to shut down the internal reasoning process
“People go crazy in herds. They come to their senses one at a time”
Gordon S Watson
=================
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Margo McIntosh wrote:
Yes I saw that yesterday Gordon and put an announcement on the News link of the website and sent it through Twitter and Facebook. At least they have the decency to allow a rebuttal. Not like some of the other media.
Margo McIntosh, RHN, RNCP, CGP,
Registered Nutritional Consulting Practitioner (Retired),
Canadian Consumer Raw Milk Advocacy Group
Weston A. Price Chapter Leader
On 2013-06-13, at 1:54 PM, Gordon S Watson wrote:
Margo McIntosh
apparently the Chilliwack Progress newspaper published my rebuttal in its entirety.
Gordon S Watson
——————-
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Margo McIntosh wrote:
Hi Gordon,
Not sure if you saw or not but I did an article featuring your rebuttal on the website at this link http://rawmilkconsumer.ca/rebuttal-to-report-in-the-chilliwack-progress-newspaper/. Lets give it a couple of weeks and if you don’t see anything else posted on these news feeds let me know and we’ll point that out to people. :0)
If you do see something posted would you let me know so we can add that?
Margo McIntosh, RHN, RNCP, CGP,
Registered Nutritional Consulting Practitioner (Retired),
Canadian Consumer Raw Milk Advocacy Group
Weston A. Price Chapter Leader
Quick news–At his sentencing hearing in Baraboo, Vernon Hershberger was fined $1,000, plus $513 of court costs, for his criminal misdemeanor conviction of violating a hold order issued by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection. His lawyers said he will appeal, but in the meantime, he must pay the fine. Before he had left the courthouse, one of his food club members had written him a check for $1,513. More than 50 letters of support came in to the judge, including four from members of his jury, the judge said. More later…
But if you’re such a defeatist, then quit, and stop posting. Going with your theory, we should take you as a demoralization agent, since you have no ideas but only the nihilist rhetoric of “we’re doomed!”