What Do Guns and Raw Milk Have in Common…or Why Do So Many People Have So Little Trust in Government’s Pronouncements?

I was watching President Obama at his press conference yesterday trying to explain why it is that every time there is talk about measures to reign in firearms, thousands of people rush out and stock up on guns and ammo. He looked serious and perplexed, said it was a trend driven by irrational fear about what he's going to do, fanned by greedy business interests.

"Those who oppose any common-sense gun control or gun-safety measures have a pretty effective way of ginning up fear on the part of gun owners that, somehow, the federal government's about to take all your guns away," Obama said. “And there’s probably an economic element associated with that. It’s obviously good for business…even the slightest hint of some sensible responsible legislation in this area fans this notion that somehow here it comes, everyone’s guns are going to be taken away.”

I make the comparison with the food arena hesitantly. I am not one of those rushing out to gun shows to stock up. I grew up in a tough area of Chicago, and had hand guns pointed at me by people whose stability I didn’t have a lot of faith in. I knew people who were gunned down. This all in the days before gun violence became as big an issue as it is today. I have handled automatic weapons and assault rifles, and I have to say they scare me, if only because I appreciate how easy it is to cause irreparable damage with one.  And I know that something is terribly wrong in a society in which innocent people are being gunned down in movie theaters, malls, and public schools by obviously deranged individuals.

Yet I can relate to the fear that is driving the long lines at gun shows—the fear that the government is going to make gun ownership more difficult, and head down a path leading eventually to gun confiscation…making it impossible for the people to ever fight back against growing repression.  These people have learned that denials or warnings from politicians, regulators, and others who are part of the apparatus don’t count for much. Even the words in the U.S. Constitution seem to count for less and less—for example, the protection against home searches in the Bill of Rights counts for little in an age when search warrants are issued nearly as easily as parking tickets, and the right to a trial by jury counts for less when charges are piled on by overly aggressive prosecutors. (We have witnessed one tragic example in just the last few days with the suicide of hacker Aaron Swartz, apparently in response to prosecutor insistence he be jailed for hacking he carried out at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, as part of a plea deal.)

While President Obama was having his press conference, and wondering why people don’t believe his assurances about guns, a former regulator was issuing warnings about the dangers of raw milk, lying to make his case: “Advocates claim that raw milk contains more nutrients and helpful digestive bacteria, improves chronic conditions and is a healthier alternative. But there is no indication that pasteurization reduces the nutritional value of milk; causes lactose intolerance or allergic reactions; or that raw milk reduces illness, or is in any way healthier.”

I’m surprised this guy didn’t use the claim that’s been used before, that it’s greedy farmers who are driving all the interest in raw dairy.

Ironically, in another newspaper story in recent days, still more evidence of just how little credibility lots of people give to the warnings: “Raw Milk Demand Booming,” says the news article out of Missouri.

So people worry about government tricks and deception. They don’t trust the assurances about the supposed safety of GMO foods. They worry that the federal government will interfere with state laws decrminalizing, or allowing medical uses for marijuana, as has already occurred repeatedly in California.

Obama spoke at his press conference about executive orders, since Congress seems unlikely to pass gun legislation. That is reassuring, since it’s executive orders that have gotten us into wars and created the category of “enemy combatants.” Even a ban on gun ownership by ex-cons becomes problematic when millions of people have criminal records because of new laws and crackdowns on non-violent crime.

Maybe the real question Obama and his advisors need to face is this: how do they lead a renewal of trust by Americans that their government isn’t looking for new ways to deceive them. I’m not sure where they begin, since the road to the current mess has been such a long and sad one. In the meantime, law-abiding citizens will increasingly take their own actions—already there are classes springing up for teachers on how to use guns, and they’re proving very popular. Expect as well a jump in home schooling. Increasingly, whether it’s education or food, people seem determined to make their own realities.  

This atricle in the Wall Street Journal today speaks to why we have no trust in our government, state or federal. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732408170457823772257688978...
The writer makes a statement that I think best sums up the problem and I quote: "It's just that they're (refering to the bureaucrats) cogs in a machine whose overriding purpose is not service but self-perpetuation and control." I sometimes think our only hope is that the "thing" gets so expensive and useless that we the people decide the bureaucracy has got to go and we start over. Which means it is going to have to get a whole lot worse!!

Wayne Craig

Yes, all corporate and government hierarchies, in addition to their moral obscenity, are far too expensive and useless for humanity to afford.

I suppose Obama and his advisors, like everyone else in the corporate state, have long since given up on earning trust. They certainly hold the very idea in contempt.

Rather, for as long as possible they (corporations and government) will rely on the apathy and ignorance of the masses, every kind of divide-and-conquer, and intimidation, bolstered where necessary by violence, as in the case of Occupy.

Meanwhile executive orders and bureaucratic lawlessness will increasingly be the real process of rule, with legislation increasingly being for purely cosmetic purposes.

If we the people want anything other than this alien lawless domination from above, we'll need to redeem our sovereignty from the soil up, by rebuilding our communities as the real centers of our politics, and defending them against alien power structures.

Ora Moose's picture

One last thing before my inspiration dries up, on the subject of "weapons control." Where I come from, you didn't need gunpowder to protect yourself, just an ability to reason and evaluate any situation and deal with it appropriately. Give me a pencil and I could stab you to death, and I mean that figuratively. Good day'all.

@ Ora: Yep, the prisoners taught us about the "anything can be weapon thing. They made shivs out of spoons, etc., and stabbed cell mates who were enemies.

Having lived in the high northern plains where it was so flat you could see the end of the world from our kitchen window, we battled skunks, badgers, coyotes, ferrets, etc., sometimes with a pitchfork or a shovel. Now that I live in the hill country I Iet the GF&P handle the bobcats, mountain lions, owls, bats, and now our latest threat the loco ravens or whatever they are that look like crows with a glandular problem. But whenever I'm out in the yard for very long, I make sure I have a hoe or something in my hands.

Our gubment knows very well that outlawing, or banning, guns is not the answer, but they're not very bright and this is the very brightest thing they can come up with. Besides, Piers Morgan and all the other idiot mainstream newscasters are cheerleading for it.

"Maybe the real question Obama and his advisors need to face is this: how do they lead a renewal of trust by Americans that their government isn’t looking for new ways to deceive them."

This is like asking how a con man, a slave master, or a theif can renew the trust of his victim.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

"Those who oppose any common-sense gun control or gun-safety measures "

It seems that the majority of gun owners do believe in "gun-safety measures" just as the majority of farmers believe in safety for whatever they are producing.
Govt is increasingly stepping into the living rooms of the population, uninvited.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-us-gun-...

Doesn't Chicago have strict gun laws? Aren't they among the top in gun violence? Gangs use "assault" weapons, they have and use machine type guns. Only fools believe that criminals buy guns at gun stores. They usually obtain them illegally.

rawmilkmike's picture

You took the words right out of my mouth Sylvia.

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101124/full/468492a.html

" Microbiology: The new germ theory"

"similar collaborations are linking those exploring the human microbiota in the intestine, skin, mouth and other surfaces with microbial ecologists, such as Banfield, who have already made a career out of studying microbial universes in environments such as soil, ocean water and toxic waste sites."

"Microbial ecologists are supplying some of the expertise and bio-informatic tools to help make sense of the data mountain. They are also bringing to the human microbial field ecological principles such as colonization, succession, resilience to change, and competition and cooperation between community members. "It's hard not to think about ecology when you enter the field," says Jeff Gordon, a leader in gut microbiology at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri."

"So although ecology is providing a framework with which to understand the human microbiota, when it comes to applying these ideas to the clinic, old-fashioned pathogen-centric microbiology is leagues ahead. And that, says Morowitz, doesn't look like it's changing any time soon. "If you walk into any hospital and pull aside someone in a white coat and ask them about microbiology, most of what they know has to do with organisms that can be isolated when they send a blood sample down to the culture lab."

Relman, a clinician himself by training, says this focus is understandable. "They're sucked towards pathogens, and they have practical questions to deal with in the clinical workplace. They're not in need of more diversity." But that has to change, he says. "We have to get away from this monolithic, one-dimensional perspective of a one-bug-one-disease picture of health," Relman says. "The community is the unit of study.""

And,once we realize that" the community is the unit of study" it is only a short step to realizing that natural laws that apply in environmental ecology also apply to " medical ecology". So much of medicine is practicing subtracting diversity from the community in a failing attempt to re-establish health when adding diversity is the obvious direction to go.

miguel

Sylvia Gibson's picture
Sylvia Gibson's picture

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/big-farm-big-family-health...

Here's the written part of the above link. This is what we on this blog have been saying for years. You'll notice the cow is being milked into an open bucket!!!

Sylvia Gibson's picture

http://shine.yahoo.com/shine-food/futuristic-girl-scouts-cookie-causes-c...

"Making junk food healthier" ? LMAO More lies and misconceptions.

rawmilkmike's picture

In order to fix a problem you first need to know the cause.

Dec.18, 2012 My first, second, and third click on the Internet this morning under
“school shooting cause”

“...91 percent of all school shootings in this country have occurred in the last 20 years."

"...virtually all of those responsible in the last two decades for mass shootings in the U.S. were taking some form of medication. For some it was Ritalin, for some it was anti-depressants, for others anti-psychotics and for some a combination of many drugs."

http://www.erichufschmid.net/Columbine/Columbine-Bollyn.html

America Over-Dosed:
The Role Of Anti-Depressants
In The Columbine Tragedy
& Other Bizarre Killings
Christopher Bollyn
American Free Press
June 2006

I wonder what makes Obozo think that our fears about his gun control plans are "irrational"? I'd love to hear him pontificate about that. In a meaningful way, that is.

mark mcafee's picture

Excellent post David,

How about 'Guts and Guns' the mental health link is absolute and direct. Bad gut...bad brain. Bad brain = irrational actions.

Back ground checks, mandatory raw milk consumption.....then you can buy your gun. In the deal....you improve 100% of Americas medical problems and improve voting decisions.

There is another angle to all of this. The media has created a romance with black steel and plastic weapons. Zero Dark Thirty and our best soldiers win when they carry and use this weapon. These weapons have been the tool of American freedom fighters and liberation from terrorism. That's the official media show point. It is a metallic plastic power fetish. These weapons have been in every picture that the American media use to validate use of bloody war to win peace. We have just fought the longest war in American history. Fought with variants of the Vietnam era Colt AR15- M-16. Now.....we wonder why Americans buy the AR15 rifle as an adult teddy bear to comfort them when citizens fear real domestic oppression from our own government. After all...the media has taught us all, nothing like the American made AR 15 to seriously create a powerful change in social dynamics. It is a powerful and extremely effective media glorified killing machine celebrated in brainwashing in all boot camps of all branches of our military services.

Do the math....our government has much work to do to win back our trust. Trust they have lost at so many levels.

Guts and Guns....freedom and the ability to fight?
Morals and the second amendment?

America is a mess.

Suggest we start with nutrition and better Guts....all else that is good will follow. The media and their passionate ignorance about the flu shot??? America is a drugged and sick place.

Start with the Gut.....Guns and their associated madness will fall in line just fine after first things first.

rawmilkmike's picture

Yes, that is all true but these school shootings started with the unnecessary medication of our children. Our children have been unhealthy for longer then the 20 years that these school shootings have been happening. Nutrition is only a small part of this problem.

David Gumpert's picture

So now, scientific evidence via a controlled study that poop, the stuff we've been taught to fear most as a source of disease, works where antibiotics don't...in fact, it cleans up the disease mess left by antibiotics.
"A new study finds that such [fecal] transplants cured 15 of 16 people who had recurring infections with Clostridium difficile bacteria, whereas antibiotics cured only 3 of 13 and 4 of 13 patients in two comparison groups. The treatment appears to work by restoring the gut’s normal balance of bacteria, which fight off C. difficile."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/health/disgusting-maybe-but-treatment-...

Sylvia and I each posted information about this a while back. I think I'll stick to real, fermented foods and probiotic inducing foods. Not that a poop implant/transplant doesn't sound appealing . . . it's the hospital surroundings that sound even less appealing.

David Gumpert's picture

Yes, but now that the NY Times has reported on it, it's "official." 

Oh. Right! Mainstream acceptance makes it truly acceptable!!

Sylvia Gibson's picture

I wonder how much was spent on these studies? How long did it take for someone to come up with the theory? The road for those thinking "outside" the box can be hazardous at best. It's a shame they don't teach true healthy natural living. Just imagine how much health care costs would be saved?

Sylvia Gibson's picture

Holye buckets, I hope no one buys into that convoluted, circular thinking by the FDA. They truly have no grasp of the obvious. They HAD to come up with another, albeit distorted, plan because people are questioning the flu shots even as they get them. The ads are blaring the need for them, but we know the shots actually help to spread the viruses, so this new Flubloc will have drawbacks, as well, you can almost take that to the bank. I have little to no faith in the current medical industry because they are a corporate cog for the drug companies, who do little to "help" anyone. Drugs are going to bring us all down, that's my prediction.

Sayer Ji over at greenmedinfo.com has a good post today about flu vaccines.

Also, it would be interesting to know if the guys from the FDA, CDC and all the drug companies take their own medicine?! What about the flu vax? Do they and their families partake?

If I were a betting person . . .

(excuse my recent postings, I'm having to use a different computer and different is the key word). Yipes.)

Sylvia Gibson's picture
mark mcafee's picture

Koala Bears must eat their mothers fecal matter in order to gain the critical bacteria needed to digest the Gum Tree leaves. With out the fecal bacteria....Teddy Bears die.

No Shit.... No Life!!

Mark

mark mcafee's picture

Stossel sucks.
He is a FOOD INC-Monsanto space alien. I have watched many of his documentary pieces and he speaks in a biased ugly tone that denies the best of research and prays on phobias and pushes forward denial.

Not a friend of the consumer or the truth about anything.

So I'm finding out, Mark. He sucks. I don't watch tv I usually just read his articles when I find them at other sites (like Libertypen.com) and I've seen a few of his youtube vids. Guess I'll have to put him in the black box category.

ingvar's picture

This is a complete package of highly relevant information. In my opinion this article needs every ounce of publicity it can be given. It is accessible to those new to all aspects of this battle for life.

Mr. J. Invar odegaard

Here are some great reasons for having "little trust in government pronouncements".

Got this from Glenn Reynolds INSTAPUNDIT site offshoot called Helen's Page at this link: http://www.helenspage.com/p/you-know-you-live-in-a-country-run-by-id/71

Good stuff. It's so scary it's funny - or not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
You can get arrested for expired tags on your car but not for being in the country illegally.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
You have to have your parents signature to go on a school field trip but not to get an abortion.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
An 80 year old woman can be stripped searched by the TSA but a Muslim woman in a burka is only subject to having her neck and head searched.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more of our money.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
A seven year old boy can be thrown out of school for calling his teacher "cute" but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
The Supreme Court of the United States can rule that lower courts cannot display the 10 Commandments in their courtroom, while sitting in front of a display of the 10 Commandments.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Children are forcibly removed from parents who appropriately discipline them while children of "underprivileged" drug addicts are left to rot in filth infested cesspools of a “home”.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Hard work and success are rewarded with higher taxes and government intrusion, while some slothful, lazy behavior is rewarded with EBT cards, WIC checks, Medicaid, subsidized housing, and free cell phones.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
The government's plan for getting people back to work is to provide 99 weeks of unemployment checks (to not work).
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Being self-sufficient is considered a threat to the government.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Politicians think that stripping away the amendments to the constitution is really protecting the rights of the people.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
The rights of the Government come before the rights of the individual.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
You pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big screen TV while your neighbor defaults on his mortgage (while buying iPhones, TV's and new cars) and the government forgives his debt and reduces his mortgage (with your tax dollars).
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Being stripped of the ability to defend yourself makes you "safe".
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Using the "N" word is considered "hate speech" but writing and singing songs about raping women and killing cops is considered "art".
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
You can write a post like this just by reading the news headlines.

rawmilkmike's picture

D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You know you live in a Country run by a government run by a corporation with it's own agenda if...
You can get arrested for expired tags on your car but when you tell the cops ex-con Jeffrey Dahmer is casing down the street the naked younger brother of the boy he had already done time for molesting and they simple help Jeffrey get him back in the house to die.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Illegal aliens think they can arrest indigenous people for being in there own country illegally without the permission of their corporate sponsors.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
You have a young mother thinking her life is over if she doesn't have an abortion.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by a government run by a corporation with it's own agenda if...
Anyone can be stripped searched by the TSA.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by a government run by a corporation with it's own agenda if...
Your government believes that the best way to create money is through debt and that the best way to eliminate a lack of money is with even less money.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
We allow our schools to be controlled by the government.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
The Supreme Court of the United States can rule that lower courts cannot display the 10 Commandments in their courtroom, while sitting in front of a display of the 10 Commandments.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by a government run by a corporation with it's own agenda if...
Children are forcibly removed from parents or the "underprivileged" are left homeless.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by a government run by a corporation with it's own agenda if...
Hard work is rewarded with government intrusion, EBT cards, WIC checks, Medicaid, and subsidized housing instead of the American dream.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
The government's plan for getting people back to work is to raise the retirement age.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Being self-sufficient is not considered a threat to the government.
====================================
You would think you lived in a Country of educated people if...
Politicians would strip away the amendments to the constitution to protect the rights of the people as stated in the ninth amendment.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
The people think the Government has rights.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
People think it's OK for the working man to borrow money to buy houses, big screen TV's and new cars while the rich pay no taxes.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Being stripped of the ability to defend yourself makes you feel "safe".
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
White people don't know using the "N" word is worse than writing and singing songs about raping women and killing cops.
====================================
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
You can write a post like this just by graduating the third grade and reading the news headlines.

You've added a lot to think about! You should go to the link I posted for Helen's Page (where this originated), join up, and post this. They'd probably appreciate your take on the matter.

rawmilkmike's picture

I agree with former Wisconsin Judge Patrick J. Fiedler who ruled in 2011, that citizens do not have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice. The Judge is not saying that citizens do not have a fundamental right to consume the foods of their choice; only that we don't have the right to produce them if no one wants them.

Back in 1957 when the Wisconsin pasteurization regulation with it's incidental sales exemption was passed there was no raw milk being sold for redistribution in it's raw form. Infants were drinking formula and because of lactose intolerance, only some children and a few adults were drinking pasteurized milk. There were very few people back then, that knew just how bad pasteurized milk was for their health. The people that wanted raw milk just went to a neighbours farm or stopped at a farm on their weekend trip to the country. The regulation prohibited an action that was not being done and can not be legally applied to any milk labelled raw and certainly not to direct farm sales of any kind.

[quote from rawmilkmike's post]:
"I agree with former Wisconsin Judge Patrick J. Fiedler who ruled in 2011, that citizens do not have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice. The Judge is not saying that citizens do not have a fundamental right to consume the foods of their choice; only that we don't have the right to produce them if no one wants them."
[end of quote]

Huh?

Once again, with clarity please?

rawmilkmike's picture

Sorry about that D. I may have oversimplified that one just a tad.

When I first read Judge Patrick J. Fiedler's ruling that citizens do not have a fundamental right to produce and consume the foods of their choice, I wondered way he used the word “and” instead of “or” in the phrase “to produce and consume” because that would suggest that he is saying it's OK to produce or consume raw milk as long as you don't do both.

I think we all no it's not illegal to consume raw milk and the ninth amendment says it's a right as long as it's not illegal. The reason it's not illegal is that our government has not been given the authority to make it illegal otherwise it most certainly would be. Think about it. Why do you think it's called possession and not use?

We have given the state the authority to regulate the production of raw milk, but not the authority to ban it. That means it can't be illegal to sell as long as there's someone who wants to buy it. Now there was a time in some states when there was no demand for raw milk in supermarkets which allowed these states to prohibit it's sale in these stores but not on the farm where there was always a very great demand.

I believe our current raw milk prohibition could be ended with one consumer call to Pick N Save asking for raw milk and a good law firm to take the case.

So what do you think? Have I just acquitted Vernon Hershberger or What?

So you still think there's such a thing as "the rule of law", and that working within this system, according to the system's rules, can work? The evidence record doesn't support that. For just one example, what does the result of OSGATA vs. Monsanto tell you about the prospects for using the courts? (And the "supreme court" will soon give Monsanto its official imprimatur in Bowman vs. Monsanto.)

So what would finally convince you that there's no "law", and that the corporate state has no legitimacy? That's a question any true citizen needs to ask themselves.

rawmilkmike's picture

Are you saying you choose to drink the Kool-Aid?

rawmilkmike's picture

At 57 with a 3 yr. old and a 6 yr. old, I'm kind of already part of the system. For today, I'm doing the best I know how. My writings here are for Vernon Hershberger who is already caught in the cogs of the system. He's the one that told me about this sight. Maybe he got tired of all my letters.

I see where you're going with your statement about Judge Fiedler. Do you think he understood his own ruling?

If you've helped to acquit Vernon Hershberger with your suggestion, a lawyer would have to get on here and say so, I guess. The court system is so messed up today and there are so many loopholes - not to mention no one has any idea what a judge will do, sometimes even they don't know - I don't put much stock in anything as far as predicting what will/could happen. I don't like to futurize that way.

rawmilkmike's picture

I feel like Judge Fiedler was apologizing for convicting a man he know to be innocent. Vernon Hershberger's judge said he was treating Vernon like anyone else and a Judge in another case said his hands were tied. All three sound like apologies to me.

So what I think these judges are actually saying is “Get a better lawyer.” “What do you expect me to do?” “My hands are tied. You've come to me with a ridiculous defense. I have to treat you like any other defendant.” “It wouldn't matter if you were Jesus Christ himself. I would have to do the same as Pontius Pilate. Bailiff, pass me the hand sanitizer please.”

rawmilkmike's picture

These school shootings have nothing to do with guns and everything to do with the way we drug perfectly healthy children. A simple label or disclaimer on these drugs would do more than all the gun control in the world.

Since the drug companies are no longer liable for anything involved with the aftermath of what their drugs are doing to people who were once healthy in body or mind, a label or discaimer means nothing, and few people bother to read them. What needs to happen is that parents should start actually being parents and begin taking a more responsible role in their children's lives. Parents need to educate themselves and stop being so trusting of the system and ask a few questions. Maybe they should even be questioning sending their children to a psychiatrist in the first place.

Actually all this business about gun control might get people to realize that our society is run by people, businesses, corporations, gubment, etc., who really shouldn't be taken at face value, which might cause them to start questioning other areas of their lives. Maybe some good will come out of the ashes.

But you're right about gun control laws. Laws won't solve the problem. But you can bet that's where it's headed.

rawmilkmike's picture

When I said "A simple label or disclaimer on these drugs" I was referring to something that the parents would see, not just the label that the doctor and the druggist throws out with the box the vaccine or drug comes in and that label should read "may cause school shootings" not just "may cause strange thoughts". If the media can say "gun control" they can also say "Don't drug your kids." If the media can say "gun safety” they can also say “drug safety”. Any decrease in medication or increase in education would mean a corresponding decrease in school shootings.

As to the last sentence in your post above, my comment is *so would closing all public schools.* And that's what should happen, but it never will. The absolute out and out lies taught in public schools today are many and growing. Most of what we were taught about history, for example, even when I went to school, was bogus and probably what they're teaching today is bogus, as well. Sadly that is just one subject.

Besides, too many parents use the school system as a day care setting, not to mention this is where their children are fed at least two meals on weekdays. Can't beat that with a stick, right?

rawmilkmike's picture

I don't think the schools are ones responsible for these school shootings. They are not the ones medicating our children. I personally think that day care is the primary function of any school. Our kids are taught reading writing and arithmetic in preschool what's the purpose of the next 20 years? If we keep raising the retirement age and lowering the hourly wage the job market is never going to improve.

I didn't say schools were responsible for the shootings. I never said that at all. If there were no public schools (much less unarmed teachers and administrators) there would be one less place for a potential crackpot shooter to choose his targets, and it wouldn't be ALL small children. But my bigger point was a jab at public schools and a fist in the air for homeschooling.

You think public schools should serve the function of being a daytime caretaker? Really?? I thought that's what parents were supposed to be doing. Anything your child might learn at an organized preschool can be taught at home, even if the parents only made it to 6th grade. The children would certainly be better off. Parents need to focus more time on their children and less time shopping at wally world for stuff they don't really need.

rawmilkmike's picture

I agree with all of that but not every parent is a teacher.

I noticed you used the term "crackpot shooter". Do you disagree with me when I call them "medicated children".

Well, by using the term homeschooling I just meant anything but public schooling, so the "teacher" could be a grandma, a friend, a private institution - doesn't necessarily have to be one of the parents.

Disagree? Hell no. They ARE medicated children if they're in the grip of one of the *systems*. It's kind of a domino effect when you send a kid to a public school, at some point the teacher is going to complain about your kid being too fidgety or some other nonsense and then you're obliged to take your kid to a doctor who refers you to a psychologist who refers you to a pschiatrist who puts your kid on at least one, if not more, drugs. This is life for the past 30 years. I've seen it happen time and time again with perfectly normal acting children. And you can't really blame the teachers too much, after all, they make squat (so they say) for what they have to put up with, so they decide to cave in and take the bonus offered to them for being the first domino.

rawmilkmike's picture

Guns and milk are similar in that neither one can be legally banned in this country. As fare as trust goes. This country was founded on the distrust of government. That's what the constitution is all about.

“common-sense gun control” is an oxymoron. Gun-safety is something you teach and has no need of mandate. That's what schools are for.

Actually, the Articles of Confederation were about distrust of government and the will to keep government smaller and more regionally-oriented. The 1787 Constitution, by contrast, is what created the strong, aggressive, alien central government. It was really a counter-revolution vs. the system's inability to fully economically dominate the people, and a reaction to developments like Shay's Rebellion which were continuing the true spirit of the revolution.

(The Bill of Rights was forced upon the framers, who held the very notion in contempt. Read the "Federalist" papers for Hamilton's sneers at any bill of rights concept.)

rawmilkmike's picture

If you look up the ninth amendment, it may change your opinion of the bill of rights.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is my opinion of the Bill of Rights? What I said is perfectly clear, that the Bill of Rights is counter to the intentions and goals of the centralizing, statist "constitution" (a basic historical fact - look it up), and that the two need to be separated in concept, and that the spirit of 87 is contrary to the spirit of 76.

rawmilkmike's picture

I've only spent a couple of hours looking at the US constitution but it looks like it takes sum of our rights and gives the states the authority to take any remaining rights accept for those spelled out in the bill of rights, then the ninth amendment says we can retain any remaining rights not taken by the state. Is this really the case? Do I now have to read the state constitution to see what rights we have left?

rawmilkmike's picture

WISCONSIN CONSTITUTION
As amended through April 2011 *
Preamble
We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its
blessings,... ...do establish this constitution.

Article I.

Declaration of Rights

Equality; inherent rights. Section 1. [As amended April 1986] All people are born equally
free and independent, and have certain inherent rights; ((( among these are ))) life, liberty and the
pursuit of happiness;

to secure these rights, governments are instituted, deriving their just

powers from the consent of the governed.

Article IV.

Legislative

Enactment of laws. Section 17. [As amended April 1977] (1) The style of all laws of the state

shall be “The people of the state of Wisconsin, represented in senate and assembly, do enact as

follows:”.

rawmilkmike's picture

Thank you for saying this "Even a ban on gun ownership by ex-cons becomes problematic when millions of people have criminal records because of new laws and crackdowns on non-violent crime." Most people forget this. If the government has there way we'll all be crazy ex-cons one day.

Ora Moose's picture

RMMike... I used to write satire for fun back in the 90s and still have my old stories online, take a look at this one I think you'll get a chuckle:

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ugo/jail.html

rawmilkmike's picture

Perfect, right on Ora. And you wrote that even before the DNA evidence scandal that caught our criminal justice system with it's pants down.