It's Hugs and Kisses in a Minneapolis Courtroom As Jury Pronounces Schlangen Not Guilty--Is This the End of MDA Rampage?

Supporters of Alvin Schlangen awaiting the jury's verdict earlier today. A jury of six ordinary Americans did something no judge, federal or state, has been willing to do anywhere in the country, whether  in New York, California, Pennsylvania, Iowa, Maryland, or Wisconsin--it ruled in favor of a farmer-food club operator providing raw milk and other nutrient-dense foods privately to its members. 

And the jurors made their decision to find Alvin Schlangen not guilty of three misdemeanor counts having to do with distributing raw milk and other foods in probably the most food-repressive  state in the country: Minnesota. 

The Minneapolis jury took about a full day in total to come to its decision after no doubt going through many of the same discussions those of us here on this blog have gone through as to whether government enforcers can, in the name of food safety, interfere with private food arrangements and thereby restrict the foods people put into their bodies. 

When the jury rendered its decision on Thursday  afternoon, Schlangen remained stone-faced, seemingly disbelieving what had just  happened...until he turned around. Behind him, in the spectator  area, there were hugs and kisses and crying among the 30 or 40 members of his food club and other supporters who have stood by the slender low-key farmer.  

Schlangen's disbelief was understandable. Ever since the alleged outbreak of  illnesses from raw  milk attributed  to Michael Hartmann's farm in May 2010, Schlangen has  born the  brunt of what can only be termed a rampage by  Minnesota authorities. That rampage saw them break  into his van and steal thousands of dollars of members' food, and obtain search  warrants to confiscate food, computers, and other property at  his farm  and a Minneapolis  warehouse storage area. 

At the trial,  agents with  the Minneapolis Department  of Agriculture testified about their activities secretly following Schlangen and  monitoring his  activities. All  this,  even though no one even suggested Schlangen's milk or other  products made  anyone ill. 

They also testified  that raw milk is highly risky, with James Roettger,  a senior inspector, actually saying that it  should  be  consumed on  the  same day it is produced, suggesting  that raw  milk kept any longer could  become  dangerous. 

In the end, the jurors chose to believe Schlangen, who took the stand in his own defense, and two of his food club members who testified as to the private nature of the food club arrangement, and how members take an active interest in the food production. 

Schlangen told the jurors that "society is undernourished." When asked by his attorney how the food club works, he said,  "140 members are involved in a voluntary food system. It's about finding a legal way to connect the food source with people." He said the original idea came from Aajonus Vonderplanitz, the California nutritionist who initially drew up the cow leasing and membership agreements  for Rawesome Food Club in California, and used them for other food clubs around the country. 

Schlangen's lawyer, Nathan Hansen, sought to counter the state's contention that Minnesota law requires consumers to travel to the farm personally to obtain their milk. He asked Schlangen how a person with a physical disability could get raw milk, and he answered that 5% of his members don't have the ability to drive, and thus depend on him. 

Schlangen also alleged misconduct by police in executing a search warrant, saying a St. Paul officer's name was substituted for a Minneapolis officer's name on one warrant. And he said the MDA had searched his van a week earlier, before they had a search warrant.  "I always understood that if you needed a warrant to access the vehicle, you have to have it before, not after".

Schlangen also said that the prosecution had alluded to the fact that his eggs were not being kept mechanically cool when agents did a search of his Minneapolis storage area March 9, 2011--he countered that with the temperature about 35 degrees on that date, his concern was to "keep the product from freezing, not from getting too warm". He added, "They used that argument to take my own farm production from me that day".

One of Schlangen's members, Kathryn Niflis Johnson, testified that she drank raw milk because, "I believe in the health benefits. And pasteurized milk is a processed food."

When  she  was  asked the  mechanism by which she obtains the milk from Schlangen,  she  said,  "As a member we lease/own the animals. We place an order and food products are delivered by Alvin. We pay the proportional amount for labor and overhead it takes to produce the food."

She was  also asked if she had ever visited Schlangen's farm. Yes, she said, with her 14-year-old  daughter,  who  was with her in  the  courtroom. 

"Have you ever received rotten/spoiled food?" Hansen inquired. 

"No, this food has made us healthy, not sick." 

Johnson, who explained she was trained as a registered nurse, who currently works as a natural health educator, told Hansen she drinks raw milk daily. 

"Is your intention to violate the law?" Hansen inquired.  

"No, just the opposite. We wish to comply, but it's difficult when it can be interpreted in so many ways. We introduced a bill into the legislature two years ago that would change or clarify the law." 
 
How long would it take her to drive to a farm to get her milk? About two-and-a-half hours each way. "So that would be five hours round trip each week."

When Michelle Doffing, the prosecuting lawyer, conducted cross examination, she asked Johnson if she had "bought" other products from Alvin, and Johnson said, "I don't know if 'bought'  is the right word, but I usually get eggs and milk and maybe other things in the past...You have to understand that this is a whole new model and that we don't necessarily have the right words to describe what we are doing".

Schlangen had  prepared  himself for  the  worst. In  a statement Wednesday  evening to his  supporters, he  said, "If this jury is confused about their power to do the right thing in this case, the thought of doing some jail time does not affect my determination to continue to volunteer for services to my food community. I've been told that in a misdemeanor case (such as this) it is common to take a few days to process and set an appeal bond to allow for a managed amount of cruelty (like putting a hen in a cage) based on the seriousness (or lack of) in the verdict. Thanks to all of you for being part of my (our) community! I've been hesitant to ask, but is there a member of our FFC coop family that would consider holding this volunteer position on a temporary basis? I'll explain the reason for this in more detail very soon. Above all of the b.s. that is going on this week, think positive, healthy thoughts! WE WILL PROGRESS, no matter the verdict!"

Schlangen could have been sentenced to three months in jail for each of the three misdemeanor counts. The judge had suggested at the start of the trial, when Schlangen refused a deal whereby he would plead guilty to one misdemeanor and get off with paying $200 in court costs, that a harsh sentence could be in the offing when he said he wouldn't be bound by any of the plea-deal terms if Schlangen was found guilty.

What will  be  the  repercussions  of this decision?  Most  immediately, a  second trial of Schlangen, due to take place in Stearns county, about an hour north of Minneapolis,  with similar charges, could  be  called  into  question. The prosecution could decide to  drop  the  charges  rather  than risk rejection  by  a  second jury,  or it could decide to call  on bigger  legal guns and go at Schlangen more  aggressively  in its court  presentation. 

But  beyond  Minnesota,  the decision is likely  to  reverberate  as  well. The enforcers  in Wisconsin have  no  doubt been watching  the Minnesota proceedings closely  in  determining how to approach  the  upcoming  trial of Vernon Hersbherger  in January. 

Will this  decision cause authorities  to pull back from their aggressive actions to interfere  with  private  food  arrangements?  I  wouldn't count  on it. They are very determined to control our food decisions, and will no doubt come up with other techniques for control.

Indeed, the MDA issued a defiant statement immediately following the jury's decision indicating it won't let up in its repressive tactics.  It said that "we strongly disagree with this ruling.  The law on this matter is clear, and the jury was tasked with making a narrow finding of whether, in their view, the state had provided sufficient evidence to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the actions of Alvin Schlangen violated state law. This is the highest burden of proof in the legal system, and the fact that the jurors deliberated for as long as they did shows that they found the decision a difficult one to make.

"This narrow ruling does not wipe away the fact that many children and adults have gotten dangerously sick from consuming raw milk. It also does not wipe away the other legal rulings that have upheld MDA enforcement actions. Protecting the integrity of our food supply remains our top priority, and Minnesotans expect us to do that job using modern science and the law as our guide. We will continue to work in their best interests."

So they'll be bullying people "for the kids," huh? As I said, don't expect any backing down, even in the face of a court action.

But  in  the  meantime, Schlangen  has won  an important  victory. It's a shot in the arm to  the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, which bankrolled Schlangen's defense. And  it  most  definitely will  provide  inspiration  and  guidance  for other  farmers  and  food club  operators who may be  deciding whether  and  how  to fight  back. 

It's a shot in the arm, as well, to the Raw Milk Freedom Riders, which helped organize support for Schlangen over the last six months.

The  decision has  already changed  the  atmosphere  at Schlangen's food  club. After supporters had calmed  down  in  the  courtroom, someone asked in a hushed voice about today's milk/food delivery which had been postponed until tomorrow. Someone else piped up: "Hey! We can talk about it out loud now, can't we?" A new day in Minnesota.

(Thanks to Kathryn Niflis Johnson and Susie Zahratka for providing information on the court proceedings. Another photo of the courtroom scene immediately following the verdict can be found with a Minneapolis Star Tribune article.)

Andrew Ward's picture

Winning!!

Andrew Mastrocola's picture

“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
Congratulations to all the good people of Minnesota, let's hope and pray that the tide continues to turn this way across the nation.

garycox's picture

jury nullification at its best. i'm glad the dept of ag got spanked!

TheGirlsGoneRaw's picture

Atta jury!!! :-) :o) :-)

mark mcafee's picture

Over joyed!!! Gary Cox is our hero. FTCLDF is our collective tool that helped us all win one today.
Alvin is a hero for having the STONES to take it all the way and not settling!!!
Let freedom ring and raw milk flow!!!

Congrats!!

Mark

Sylvia Gibson's picture

Kudos! Would it be worth-while to go after those who are guilty of "misconduct" and harassment, et al? Would that send a message? You know they are going to re-group and try to knock the food movement out again. They haven't been stopped.

Bryan - oz4caster's picture

Great to read some good news! Thanks for passing it along David :)

Great win! I am drinking a tall glass of raw milk to celebrate.

rawmilkmike's picture

It's only jury nullification if you say he's guilty of breaking the law. I personally think he didn't break the law. We all know the true intent of these regulations is to eliminate the competition. In the courtroom we must assume the intent of our regulations are to insure the consumer gets the food they are looking for.

Thank you Raw Milk Mike, David, Alvin and all!

I'm truly joyful about the jury's decision! They surpassed my expectations and really did the right thing!

I agree that Alvin "didn't break the law" - nor was it possible for him to break any law of the State legislature's making as those legislative acts are all limited in their jurisdiction. Any fully-informed jury can see what those jurisdictional limits are (but probably not by way of the judge or the prosecuting attorney). In this instance - private contracting parties who own their own property and who are not engaged in violating the Rights and/or property of others have nothing that is subject to the State's jurisdiction as long as they do not volunteer into that jurisdiction. Any one of the private parties can declare the truth of these facts at the very onset of the initial trespass. Otherwise the State agents begin building a legal case that, even if it goes to a jury trial and a "not guilty" verdict is delivered, is typically one of the most stressful processes to have to go through. "Not guilty" is a good decision however wouldn't avoiding this court proceeding be even better?

Holding every agent, who trespasses on private property, lawfully and legally accountable can stop the "case building" dead in its tracks. If anyone is going to court why not those who are trespassed upon as plaintiffs to get judgement in their favor against the trespassers? And yet that is not the only way to present a claim for a monetary settlement. This can be done without the court.

I count this decision as an exceptional instance of good fortune and I don't count on it repeating! Instead, become aware of other, non-judicial options, to swiftly end an "attack" and more ideally, prevent one from ever occurring.
"Learning The Law and Understanding Government: So You Can HAVE YOUR FREEDOM AND GET YOUR WAY":
http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=1963907

InalienableWrights's picture

At a higher level there is another agenda.... Agenda 21 to be exact. And also an agenda of eugenics. To force use to eat foods that will make us sick.

rawmilkmike's picture

Probably.

Of course he "broke the law", in the same way the thugs broke the law in their enforcement actions. The point is, the law is intentionally vague and systematically enforced in the system's interest. Believing there's such a thing as "law" or the "rule of law", when there's self-evidently no such thing, is to philosophically disarm oneself. If the system reacts by revising the law to clearly rule out herdshares, where will the people who insist on this version of legalism be? Will they then be willing to call for and engage in civil disobedience? If so, they'll have to change their philosophical position to do so. It's better to recognize the fraudulence of the system and its "laws" as such, and that there's nothing but Might Makes Right. True community citizens will have to assert our own might in order to live our rightful freedom. That means, for example, denying that a gang like the MDA or Dean Foods has any right to exist in the first place, no matter what the law says. Don't play their game.

Hurray for the jury nullifiers! (Contrary to the MDA's propaganda, it sounds like there were just one or two holdouts who must have been saying something like, "I don't want to convict him, but he's technically guilty, and my civic duty as a juror..." blah blah blah... If so, the others were able to convince them to dump that nonsense and do the right thing. Don't play the enemy's game.)

rawmilkmike's picture

What are you saying Russ?

InalienableWrights's picture

He was lucky... the jury pool in this country as I have heard many an attorney express, is lacking to say the least.

I think what you are now going to see is a strong effort to deny people trial by jury, just like they do in so called family court, or when CPS decides that they are going to kidnap your child.

If you do mange to get a jury trial you will see the stacking of egregious charges to scare people into accepting a plea. You will also see the suppression of all evidence that supports your innocence. In dealing with prosecutors and courts we are dealing with an organized criminal gang, and they will act accordingly.

I think there would be a lot more justice if there were laws where we could try<sp> and imprison government psychopaths that violate the rights of American citizens. What do you think they would do to me if I pulled a gun, kidnapped, and locked in a cage, a neighbor that was drinking something that I did not approve of? I think government sycophants should be treated the same.

rawmilkmike's picture

I agree

Many times I visit this blog and think "What fresh hell is this?" The contrast of this good news about Alvin Schlangen will go a long ways towards keeping me and others motivated in the struggle for food rights. I am so happy for him - I can't imagine the stress he has been under.

I think those who warned that this verdict is only a tiny victory are right. The bureaucrats who seek to oppress our food rights will only come back stronger. Well, we need to be even stronger and continue to resist with love and integrity (to paraphrase Michael Schmidt).

InalienableWrights's picture

Shana
Yes this was a victory, but IMHO to focus on "food rights" is myopic at best.
Rights are all equally important, and we need to stand for everyone's rights, and all of them.

Martin Niemöller's poem is still as applicable today as the day that he wrote it.

rawmilkmike's picture

But food rights are not really the issue.

VictoriaB's picture

Great post, David – I really get a sense of what was going on in the courtroom. The stakes were certainly high. This is just wonderful, wonderful news, and I do hope it bodes well for Vernon Hershberger. Hurrah for FTCLDF and the Raw Milk Freedom Riders, too!

Joanie Blaxter's picture

Double to Victoria's post David - well written and joyful news! Having experienced first hand so much systemic corruption in my area, it gives me hope that if you have a group of unattached and relatively intelligent people, as opposed to bureaucrats with their careers at stake, making the final decision we may stand a chance!

Deborah Peterson's picture

On a similar front, I just got word from a friend of mine who lives in Missouri & who has been sharing with me the story of her neighbor who was being hounded & harassed by local officials just because he has extended his luscious garden to his front yard. This garden was incredible & contained about 55 different types of heirloom veggies & fruits, not to mention it looked beautiful. When they were not successful in demanding that he tear everything out, they brought charges against him having to do with "exterior appearance" citations. He has been fighting this for many months, well, the official decision just came down & all charges were dropped against him. But, I have a feeling that it won't stop there. She goes on to state that she & all the other neighbors, as well as, other local supporters will keep an eye on the local officials in case they try their tactics all over again.

Sylvia Gibson's picture
Sylvia Gibson's picture

Hit the post button too soon. It appears that the one of the problems with all these contaminated foods is the growing/processing processes. Why doesn't the govt work to change that? Size does appear to matter. It appears to be the big to huge operations that have the contamination problems. A simple fix would be to change how they are farming and processing their products.

I don't know when farmers (family/community) began using manure on their crops, we always used it, cow, chicken, turkey as did neighbors and friends. Composting was also used. No one had illnesses from it, as kids we pulled carrots out of the ground and brushed off the dirt and ate them, we picked fruit without washing, etc and we didn't get sick. Over the last 20 yrs as the local farms became scarce, we turned to lowes/home depot or the local nursery and I can only assume that manure came from the factory farms. (We let the store bought manure sit by the fence for a year before using) We have wild birds, squirrels, sometimes rabbits, cats wondering through the garden. As an adult, I've eaten the unwashed produce as I picked it without problems.

mark mcafee's picture

Government always needs an enemy in order to Pereserve it's status, project its power and have a war. The US government has been in a perpetual war against something for the last 220 years. If there was nothing to fight....there would be little need for our type of government. This is just a sign of a lost war against bacteria. Our immune systems have failed and now he list of bad bugs grows and grows....

Kind of like the failed war against drugs....and our love affair with prisons and incarceration industries.

Our government responds to the needs of industry....not the people, the ramifications reverberate thoughtout society.

The secret is to use these wars to publically expose the totally rediculous greed based theories that drive our society....we will have peace when prevention is embraced...reactionary greed based corporate needs based ethos will end up eating itself....a matter of time and internet education

Bill Anderson's picture

"The US government has been in a perpetual war against something for the last 220 years. If there was nothing to fight...there would be little need for our type of government."

I'm glad that some people in this movement GET IT, such as Mark. The so-called "constitutional Republic" is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I also would broaden what Mark is saying. Its not just the "gubmint" that needs something to fight against. OUR SOCIETY always has something to fight against. For example, all the so-called "Libertarians" in this movement who think that public health agencies need to be fought against. (No... they just need to be educated)

Or, on the left, the so-called "progressives" who think that only the Republican Party needs to be fought against, when Obama and his ilk do many of the same horrible things that Bush did and Romney would do.

The only thing we need to be fighting is ignorance and injustice, and its manifestations in our society (i.e. the military-industrial complex, junk foods, etc).

Otherwise we end up in the Hobbessian "war of all against all." Or, in a word, CAPITALISM.

InalienableWrights's picture

Mark and Bill....
Mark,
There is NOTHING wrong with "greed". If it were not for "greed" to one degree or anther most people would not get out of bed in the morning. The real problem is not upholding the rule of law. I want people to be greedy, in the sense that they want to be productive and produce as much as they can. That does not mean committing criminals acts such as buying off government bureaucrats in order to create and uneven playing field that will benefit your company over others. Or allow you to without consequence produce a dangerous product.

Bill,
We don't have Capitalism or even anything even remotely close to a free market. We have a large mixture, of socialism, fascism, corporatism, and perhaps a tiny slice of Capitalism in there somewhere. The fact that people like you can not see the problem is the absolute guarantee to the oligarchs that things will remain the same and in all probability get much worse. Nor do we have a constitutional republic to believe so one would have to be a a good acid trip or something,,,,,

The only reason that men are not free to use the free market to solve problems is that we have created an all powerful government in order to implement socialism in this county. To have a Constitutional Republic you need a very limited government. The opposite has happened and every time throughout history that you get an all powerful government, special interests with unlimited amounts of money by that government off and use it for nefarious ends.

If you have a prize(in the eyes of special interests groups) such as an all powerful government there is NO way through legislation to prevent those with money from ending up owning your government officials. If the rewards of owning that government are big enough there is NOTHING that will prevent those with money from gaining control of it. The only solution that has and can work is a government that is so weak in terms of control over the citizens lives that it does not really matter if it is bought off as they are so impotent that it does not matter.

Bill Anderson's picture

Yes, I get it, IW. Capitalism in practice does conform to the idealized notion of how it should operate in your head. So you decide to call it something else.

This is capitalism, like it or not. America is the only western, industrialized liberal democracy IN THE WORLD that has never had a bona-fide Labor or Social-democratic political party in power. We are the only industrialized nation that does not have universal healthcare. We also happen to be the most averse to alternative medicine and natural foods. Coincidence? No, its really not.

I refuse to debate you any further until you educate yourself on the real history of this country, not the bourgeois myths told in the capitalist public schools, or the reactionary feudalist myths told in your private religious schools.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

"I refuse to debate you any further until you educate yourself on the real history"

Funniest thing I have read in quite a while.

rawmilkmike's picture

S.C. I agree with Bill. How can you argue with a person that starts out with this in their first paragraph: "I want people to be greedy, in the sense that they want to be productive and produce as much as they can. That does not mean committing criminals acts such as buying off government bureaucrats in order to create and uneven playing field that will benefit your company over others. Or allow you to without consequence produce a dangerous product." Greed is the opposite of productivity. The next three paragraph are even more ridiculous.

rawmilkmike's picture

greed;
An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.

Avarice is like a graveyard; it takes all that it can get and gives nothing back —Josh Billings

Resident Socialist : stating " The so-called "constitutional Republic" is part of the problem, not part of the solution.", you categorize you-self as one of the domestic enemies of the Republic of the united states of America.
tragically, you're still floundering-around, mis-understanding the term "capital-ism". Go educate yourself as to what Buckminster Fuller had to say about true capital-ism versus the criminal cartel operated by the usurers, which is the root cause of ALL of the ills of Ham-merica, since its inception in 1913

see if you can keep your word = not to unload masses of ignorant sophistry + verbiage = 'til you learn a bit of history ?

Bill Anderson's picture

I'm very well educated on what capitalism is and what it is not. I've even read the partisans of capitalism (Rothbard, von Mises, Hayek, etc.) and I think they were over-privileged crocks of !@#$. David Graeber nicely debunked the "myth of barter" which underpins all free market theories, when he published his recent book "Debt: The First 5,000 Years."

You, Watson, need to educate yourself on the history of political theory. Start with Thomas Hobbes. He laid much of theoretical basis for the modern capitalist nation-state. I'm not a fan of him, btw, but if you want to understand where our English "common law" system comes from, that is where you have to start.

And I suppose you are right about one thing. I am a "domestic enemy of the Republic." Its funny that accusation is coming from someone who presumably isn't even an American citizen. Yes, 100 years ago, people with my political views were often executed by our wonderful "Constitutional Republic" for being subversives. People like Joe Hill, Frank Little, the Haymarket Martyrs, etc... Emma Goldman got lucky. They just deported her to Russia. The Bolsheviks didn't like her either because she was too subversive, and she ended up in Canada.

America is a murderous military-police state. This FDA/raw milk stuff is child's play compared to what the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, ICE, etc... do. Personally, I'd much rather deal with FDA inspectors who are educated in HACCP and food science than with FBI thugs whose agenda is to kill enemies of the state. Thank you, Rand Paul, but you can go home with your ridiculous proposal.

I'm done debating. Carry on with your usual histrionics. I have a business plan to tend to. You know... actually trying to help PROGRESSIVE Wisconsin organic dairy farms stay in business, by making artisan cheese with their raw milk.

ingvar's picture

Me too!

Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard

rawmilkmike's picture

Mark, I posted this earlier for fresh milk but the same would hold true for any healthy food:

If you look up raw milk you will find that the CDC says it could contain pathogens that could cause diarrhea. If you look up campylobacter or any of their so called pathogens you will find that it is said to sometimes cause disease, that disease being diarrhea. If you look up diarrhea you will find that it is the most common illness in America, that it is not serious, and that the average American gets it four times a year. That means one out of every one hundred people has diarrhea right now.
Each raw milk cow share would have to have one of the CDC’s so called outbreaks every day just to keep up with the nation average.

And we know that none of the associations are ever proven. Even a DNA match means nothing. Diarrhoea has more to do with malnutrition than anything else. Just look up the symptoms.

This has been a great week of true freedom for our local food freedom movement. I've been smiling since last Friday, once I realized the full impact of this verdict. I would have rather heard "INNOCENT" with no proof of guilt, but apparently the old saying doesn't hold water. I thought it was really interesting that James Roettger testified that fresh raw milk was safe, but once it was a week old was almost certainly not. How can the democracy of beneficial bacteria in a closed system not overtake the minority and rule like a president without conscious thought. Also, the idea that it would certainly be "legal" to use a cat litter box to collect your milk at the dairy, as long as you individually went there, not more than twice a month and paid the farmer for your prize. He may well have likened the litter box idea to that fact that it would be considered adulterated if there was no label on the unlikely container. These guys stretch the meaning of this statute beyond recognition to justify their agenda. The statute must go and soon. This court transcript will be useful when supporting the re-introduction of a similar bill as last session, to clarify a bad rule and eliminate the discriminatory aspect of the requirement of traveling to a distant farm, on a limited basis, where the road-time would be of a thousand times more risk than the risk of being healthy. Thank you ALL for the energy that we collectively used to stop the bad guys, finally! Be well, Alvin

David Gumpert's picture

Thank you, Alvin, for your commitment and bravery in standing up for all of us.

InalienableWrights's picture

This should happen at most every criminal trial in this country IMHO as most laws are mala-prohibita and not lawful.

The state can still kidnap you child, and not even bother to give you any due process such as a trial by jury. How can anyone claim victory when the state can take your most precious possession with ANY due process what so ever?

InalienableWrights's picture

Bill, I find your myopia astounding. You have no clue as to what Capitalism is for starters. It is merely the free exchange of goods and services. No more no less. The criminality that we are witnessing is no more capitalism than the pope is a martian.

The all powerful state that was brought into existence mainly to implement your socialist redistribution schemes is the source of the very food tyranny that you claim to be fighting. Amazing how in the information age that some can still not even begin to see the truth. You and your political world view the the cause of this whole food tyranny for a Constitutional government could not do what is being done.

Bill Anderson's picture

You need to put down your nationalist right-wing books, and study how capitalism actually developed historically, IW.

No socialist has ever held political power in the United States, despite the John Birch societies fabulous claims. Currently, there is only 1 socialist in the US Senate, and that is Bernie Sanders (from Vermont, where, surprise surprise, raw milk is legal, and family dairy farming and artisan cheese making are the norm)

Capitalism cannot be seperated from the institution of wage-labor and the factory system. It is a system of production based on various forms of exploitation -- slave labor, wage-labor, destruction of the enviroment, destruction of indigenous cultures, and the financialiazation of all humane values.

If you want to understand what capitalism really is, then here's a place to start:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberalism-A-Counter-History-Domenico-Losurdo/dp/1...

Bill Anderson's picture

A lampooning of the John Birch Society. As relevant today as it was 50 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6taS9R1KM