Shift on Raw Milk Research, Benefits, at Dairy Old Guard? WI DATCP Stomps on Mennonite Butcher
One of the most incisive scientific assessments on all that European research on raw milk of the last few years has just appeared, of all places, on a web site backed by the conventional dairy industry and academe.
In a footnoted article by an experienced science writer, a newsletter put out by the International Milk Genomics Consortium (IMGC) has concluded that the European research on raw milk in recent years did, indeed, come up with significant findings strongly suggesting health benefits for children from raw milk. The IMGC is a joint operation between the California Dairy Research Foundation (CDRF), which is a non-profit backed by California's conventional dairies and processors, and the University of California Davis (UCD), which includes among its faculty and staff long-time opponents of raw milk.
The IMGC's article points out the well-known risks associated with raw milk, but comes to two basic conclusions apart from the risks:
1. Raw milk is likely nutritionally superior to conventional milk. "The data suggest that raw milk can cause both trouble and advantage to a human body...To be sure, heating milk to 72°C for 15 seconds reduces the odds of a bad belly, but does it also destroy complex proteins and other components that could bolster human health? Apparently so."
2. More study of raw milk's benefits is essential. The article concludes that "there is strong evidence that (raw milk) benefits young children, but almost no information of substance about adults. To answer the question fully, the world needs studies testing whether large numbers of grown-ups suffering from asthma, hay fever, and similar medical problems see their allergies dampen down after drinking raw milk for a prolonged period. Until that day, the question is still open."
The article's author, Anna Petherick, is a writer with Nature, one of the foremost scientific journals in the world. Her assessment in the Consortium newsletter makes a serious effort at being well balanced, and I strongly suggest readers here study it.
Well balanced isn't something we've seen much of from the world of academia or dairy processing. This first sampling could signal an important shift in that world's approach. If so, it would be a breath of fresh air.
**
Arlin Bender is a Mennonite who has been slaughtering cattle for 40 of his 58 years. He learned the trade from his grandfather, and until two years ago had been practicing his trade for neighboring farmers in New York state.
Two years ago he moved to Wisconsin, to be closer to other members of his extended family, He confined his slaughtering and butchering to neighbors and friends...and that is when his problems started.
Everything was fine for a while. "Neighbors would ask me for help in cutting up meat from their cows," he says.
Then Bender ran an ad in a local publication offering to butcher deer for local hunters. There was no problem with that, except an inspector with Wisconsin's Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection saw the ad and, according to Bender, "figured if you are cutting up deer, you are probably cutting up beef."
And beginning nine months ago, Bender began a journey through DATCP hell. Agents arrived Jan. 5 threatening to take Bender's beef. He tried to explain that he wasn't serving the public, but they returned Jan. 10, with a local sheriff's deputy, and no warrant. "They said they didn't need a warrant because there is contraband here."
The agents proceeded to red-tag all the food in the walk-in freezer in his garage. "They said, 'You don't have the right to have your son's meat in your freezer. Just your meat." They put tags not only on beef, but on venison, and frozen blueberries and cherries. They left alone a lamb he had just butchered for himself.
"They said the detained tags have to stay there 30 days. There's a $5,000 fine for each tag removed. I have friends from Russia who used to tell me about the KGB, and this is what this seemed like."
Bender has had heart trouble, and not surprisingly, this encounter with the law didn't help things. He collapsed the day after they put the tags on his food--a doctor prescribed anti-anxiety medication.
DATCP insists he have an approved facility and a license to butcher the meat. "That means building a shop or building to their specs, nice shiny and white," he says. "I tried to check into some prices, and seems like it would be about $30,000." All that expense to buy things he doesn't really need. "They said I need a restroom facility. I said I can go in the house, 50 feet away."
"I am supposed to have a holding tank. Why? If I kill an animal, I do it on the farm. All your blood and guts are at the farm where it is done."
Aside from all that, he's just not doing that much slaughtering. "I might kill one cow, then it's three or four weeks before I do another. I work hither and yon to keep busy."
Yes, "hither and yon" is something for another age. In the meantime, the DATCP obtained a temporary restraining order on Bender in February. "It says I can't go to any place to butcher meat, and no one can come to me."
In July, he helped a neighboring farmer slaughter a cow that couldn't walk, with the farmer taking the meat. DATCP somehow learned about the event, and Bender has received a summons to appear in court Oct. 16. "They want to fine me $1,000 for helping butcher a farmer's cow that he was going to be eating himself," Bender says with amazement.
Bender says he has had three court hearings since was first hit with the tagging, and at one of them, he says he tried to argue to the judge that the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment guarantee of "the right to be safe in your own home" gave him the right to butcher meat at his home.He said a retired inspector from the U.S. Department of Agriculture had told him there was such a thing as a "producer's exemption" whereby a farmer can engage an outsider to help him slaughter a cow.
Low-level judges generally don't like to hear about Constitutional guarantees and such. They are mostly in the business of backing up the regulators. And they also don't like to hear from ordinary folk representing themselves instead of hiring a lawyer, as Bender has been doing.
"I always thought that honesty was the way to be with people," Bender says. You have to admire his sincerity, but then you have to remember the people he is dealing with.
For another account of Bender's problems, see this account from the National Independent Consumers and Farmers Association (NICFA).
This site's mission is to provide news and analysis about food rights and raw milk. Increasingly, our access to privately available food is under attack by government and industry forces that seek to impose their choices on us. The Complete Patient seeks to provide up-to-date information and encourage the development of community to maintain traditional food acquisition options.
"Raw milk is likely nutritionally superior to conventional milk."
They needed to research this? DUh.. The more processed a food is, the less nutrients are left in it...
"More study of raw milk's benefits is essential."
This has been said in so many places. Better late than never/
"They said, 'You don't have the right to have your son's meat in your freezer. Just your meat."
Excuse me? Wisconsin sounds like an awful place to be.
The gubment is trying to price everything so people cannot afford to do it themselves, forcing them to go to an "approved facility" where it's all under the thumb of the gubment goons. This way, it will appear as thought it's about money (which it is, sorta) but in reality we're back to that control issue again. Their way of doing things stinks though. They can and do rule the roost, so why drag the guy through the court system? Just shut him down once and for all and call it good because that's what they're gonna do (eventually) anyhow. The writing is on the wall for all of us, in that regard. I don't understand the people who are working for our gubment these days. They know right from wrong but it's as though they don't care, they're" just doing their job". Yeah, isn't that the same phrase people heard from Hitler's goons?
David,
Thank for writing about my friends at the Milk Genomics research Lab at UC Davis. I had lunch with one of their key PhD researchers last month and he expressed her deep frustration at his funding sources saying that they did not want to hear about the benefits of raw milk....they told his that she needed to find benefits for pasteurized milk. She can not find much good about pasteurized milk...!!!
So much for truth in science. She also shared with me that she is thoroughly moved by the work of Weston A Price.
Sounds like we have a real friend at the foremost research center for Milk. I keep in regular contact...but it is essential that he keeps his head down or lose his job. I am not going to expose the name of the researcher....we are on a real mission together.
My gut says that their will be senate hearings in the next few years...they will call for heads on a plate for lies told to the public about the failings of pasteurization and processing. You watch...this drama is going to get really ugly. There are 1600 dairymen in CA that are losing their cows and businesses...this is causing a serious upset and the truth is one of the things that is gushing out like an arterial bleed.
Mark
Mark, just a respectful suggestion...I have seen you write about "confidential" things and persons not to be named several times on this blog; you might want to refrain from mentioning them at all if confidentiality is important. How many senior research scientists do you suppose are working on this study at UC Davis? You have already identified this person by gender, where he works, what his focus is, and that you communicate with him regularly. We all know the frustration of the "good" guys trying to get the truth out, or lose their jobs, we don't have write about it. Lets not drive these brave souls back into the closet by not respecting their privacy and potentially exposing them. Transparency is important, this is something you are also trying to achieve with your business. Publicizing any real science about raw milk is important, we desperately need this science in court rooms all over the country, but we have to in a way as to not jeopardize the scientists that bring us this work. In your amazing and seemingly never ending enthusiasm for raw milk sales just be mindful of how what you have to say effects others.
Baily,
If you've been reading this blog long enough you would know that Mark can't keep much to himself if it stands to further promote his business, and he doesn't much have a good internal compass about how his words affect other people. In fact it often feels as if he uses his comments here as a marketing tool. I got the impression that the researcher is a woman, but he kept changing the gender to try to mask this person's identity.
Best,
Kristen
"In July, he helped a neighboring farmer slaughter a cow that couldn't walk, with the farmer taking the meat. DATCP somehow learned about the event, and Bender has received a summons to appear in court Oct. 16."
How that "DATCP somehow learned about the event" works is, the govt really does have spy satellites and eavesdropping equipment and all kinds of agents that work in secret and overtly and ... Don't be fooled by random event theorists. The govt really does use this stuff. Just a heads up there.
(and I'm not even going to bring up what happened to Kennedy after he fired the head of the CIA and said he was going to "break it into a thousand pieces". That would be getting too far off the raw milk theme. Plus I don't want to ruffle the feathers of any random event theorists in the forum.)
Can't help but wonder about this latest research, interesting that it would come out at the same time as the French study on the cloned cow that produces non-allergenic milk. (Cows don't need tails any way, right?) Random chance? Hmmm
If Bender lives anywhere near Hershberger...seems the survelliance theory of discovery is in fact a reality.
Bailey,
You took the bait...is the UC Davis PHD male or female. I used both genders. I ain't stupid. There is a certain amount of guts required to stand up and be counted. Sitting down in the face of atrocity never stopped any blood shed. My PHD friend never suggested or hinted that he or she wanted to stay below the radar. He or she just wanted support from the raw milk community. Dr. he or she is tenured and does not care about the political grenades that go off.
Caltech University PHD just was awared $500,000 for his research in the area of GUT bacteria immunity. Wow...
http://www.caltech.edu/node/36862
if I did not know better I would think that I was listening to one of my Share the Secret presentations. I say the same exact things when I speak about biodiversity of raw milk and GUT immunity.
Our friends in science are coming arround to back us up 100%....just a matter of time now.
Teach Teach Teach....
Mark
I can testify for hay fever abatement as a result of drinking raw milk. Ever since I can remember I'd had fierce hay fever every August/September: terribly itching and watering eyes, sneezing 30-40 times in the morning upon arising - really intense and exhausting. OTC anti-histamines would help, but not eliminate, and I never liked to take as much of those meds as it seemed to require to give me relief. Plus, I've baled hay for the last 15+ years for good measure - which of course did not help. About 7 years ago I started drinking raw milk, and the very first hay fever season following that - no hay fever. And I'm still baling hay. Anecdotal - sure. Coincidence - I doubt it, with a lifetime of sneezing (50+ years) prior to drinking raw milk.
Kristin,
You are so insightful. I am totally dedicated to raw milk, OPDC brand development and market building. The stronger that raw milk becomes in CA the more WE will succeed for the greater good of all. Especially the next generation that has suffered so much from overprocessed, toxic, allergic food.
If you think I am a promoter...you are so correct. Just remember, I do not sell raw milk...I teach it. At every one of my Share the Secret presentations, I give away raw milk and other products.
If I do not promote raw milk....who will ?? It seems that all the 1st world is against raw milk.
Are you suggesting that I should not promote or work hard towards brand development?
Would you prefer that I stop teaching or cheerleading for raw milk or its safety....ain't gonna happen.
Not sure you get me. I take calls all day long from elated consumers, frustrated scientists, interested doctors, confused mothers, happy moms....the feedback I get motivates me deeply. Then the tours continue at the farm all week long and then into the weekend. People want to talk and share their experiences about how raw milk has changed their lives and their GUTS.
When this is your life....you live and breath it. Yes....I deeply support raw milk and teach it at every opportunity.
@ Mark: Thank you very much for telling Kristin P. what she needed so badly to hear. I've seen her bad-mouthing (in her slick way) the whole raw milk movement at other places on the internet in months past and it's sickening. It's hard to know if she's a supporter or not. At some places she seems to be a supporter and then she comes here and throws a hissy fit because you, who are in the business of raw milk, actually SUPPORT raw milk. Beats me but she sounds just a bit off magnetic north if you ask me.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but name and words can't hurt me!"
http://news.yahoo.com/rare-meningitis-cases-26-5-states-4-deaths-2243452...
Will the owner of the drug company be taken away in cuffs? Will their doors be shut forever? They killed people!
http://news.yahoo.com/secret-cold-war-tests-st-louis-raise-concerns-2146...
Indeed, out gubment takes care of us and looks out for us......
The new article from University of California Davis continues a forward trend for raw milk in academia:
Beginning in 2007 Rutgers University – New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station, decided to organize and host a seminar series concerning raw milk. http://njaes.rutgers.edu/news/release.asp?n=569
Speakers over the period 2008 to 2011 included Mark McAfee, Gary Cox, Mark Gebhart MD, Professor Schaffner, David Gumpert, and Ted Beals MD.
During this same period, on two occasions, I was invited to give a guest lectures on raw milk to students at Princeton University.
Also papers on raw milk were presented at professional meetings with published abstracts: 1) Anonymous Commodity Farmer or Artisan Farmer with a Face, Who Is Your Farmer and Why?
Joseph Heckman, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ
http://a-c-s.confex.com/crops/2010am/webprogram/Paper61341.html
2) Grass to the Glass: Raw Milk and Informed Consumer Choice.
Joseph R. Heckman, Plant Biology & Pathology, Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ
http://a-c-s.confex.com/crops/2011asa/webprogram/Paper69539.html
In Feburary 2012, Harvard University hosted a raw milk debate. On Youtube it has over 25,000 viewings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLRdihFi6gw
Once upon a time the subject of organic farming was about as unpopular in academia as raw milk is today. http://www.westonaprice.org/farm-a-ranch/468-history-of-organic-farming....
In the early years of the organic farming movement very few land grant colleges had the courage or foresight to investigate organic agriculture. But today the organic agricultural movement has found general accommodation in academia. I can not now think of a single agricultural university that does not have some level of research, extension, or teaching program in organic agriculture. This change came about slowly over a period of decades.
Yes, there is hope for raw milk getting more attention in academia.
Keep it up. Teach Teach Teach.
Joseph Heckman
Thanks Dr. Heckman.
Its unfortunate that some in this movement (not naming any names here...) choose to attack the land-grant universities, rather than work to reform them. Its well past time we kick the corporate money out of our public universities. The agenda of scientific research should not be dictated by Monsanto and Wall Street financiers. It should be directed democratically by we the people.
I can't help but notice how Quebec students have taken a stand over the issue of neo-liberalism in their universities, with the student strike that has been going on for months now. This is the kind of uprising we need in America. But doing so means getting past our silly aversion to the "S" word (you know what I'm talking about here...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests
The intellectual elite are the shakers and movers of the socialist movement in Quebec. They are far from representative the working people in that province including farmers. Overall Quebecers are a passionate, cultural oriented people with a strong sense of purpose who value their rights including private property rights (especially farmers) and are willing to stand up and defend it.
If there is one positive thing I can say about the Quebec Government they are much more supportive their agricultural industry, a fact, which farmers in the rest of Canada recognize and are envious of. Unfortunately their oppressive language laws are a consequence of the intellectual elite movement’s ability to hijack the ruling government.
Ken
the Quebec govt. is indeed "supportive of their agricultural industry ..." as long as untold amounts of subsidies are syphoned out of the federal trough, underwritten by the tax~serfs in the Rest of Canada. The dairy supply management scheme, being Exhibit One evidencing that crime of "abuse of dominance"
What the farmers in the RoC recognize and covet, is, the way the whiners hold the federal govt. hostage by emotional blackmail ... the Quebecois having learned the Jesuitical tactic of couching every demand in a threat to separate if they don't get what they want.
Yeah, well, that half-century syndrome is over now for 2 reasons : the RoC is happy to see La Belle Province go, as long as they take with them their share of the national debt.
As for the idiots in the streets ranting about free university tuition, and a free lunch to go with : the line I like best is : "social~ism seems to work 'til you run out of other people's money".
Joseph Heckman has been instrumental in keeping the subject of raw milk alive in academia, at great professional risk, and cost. I wrote about his challenges a couple years back--that post helps set the context for what is happening today at UC Davis, and why it is potentially so significant.
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/article/2010/february/1/when-it-comes-...
Thank you Mr. Heckman, what a refreshing post to read. It does give one hope. Also, thank you Sylvia, you are my rock on this blog, I find I rarely disagree with your posts and always learn from them.
Thank you User2690 for your kind words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njd0RugGjAg&feature=share
Did someone say that humans were the only creature to consume another animal's milk? Not true.
http://aprilleflye.blogspot.com/2011/04/15-unique-women-who-breastfeed-a...
'in a television interview for Thames TV This Week on February 5, 1976. Prime Minister Thatcher said, "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
It has been popularly paraphrased in various forms:
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."
"The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."
"Eventually, socialists run out of other peoples' money [to spend]."
(wiki web site)
EEEEEH, WRONG!
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110201/in-norway-start-ups-say-ja-to-socia...
Not only does socialist Norway have a higher rate of entrepreneurship than the US, they also have more civil liberties and a higher standard of living. All that, with one of the most generous welfare states in the world.
IMAGINE THAT!
And a very homogeneous population, which makes for common heritage, common values, and common interests.
well, not completely homogeneous. Check out the 6 part youtube videos, plus epilogue, Last Yoik in Saami Forests, documenting the destruction of the Native Saami people's forests of northern Scandinavia, by the Norwegian govt and company. Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia stole all their lands and have tried to destroy their culture. Same story as with Native americans except these are white tribal people. They herd reindeer to survive. Don't know if they milk the reindeer but if so, you guys might have some kindred spirits there with raw milk (assuming you stop praising the Norwegian govt of course). The Saami Council is a group trying to get their homelands back from the landgrabbers. Greenpeace came to their aid in trying to save the last of these ancient forests, you'll see in the videos. Very interesting videos if you have time to watch them, about an hour in all. You'll see a connection between ancient Europe and America that isn't taught in school. The Saami use teepees, wear the "medicine wheel" aka celtic cross...
Looking into it, it looks like the Saami are indeed reindeer milk specialists. Looks like it could be awesome stuff, 22% fat content.
Very interesting, TommCulhane. I will take a look into this.
My intention certainly wasn't to praise the Norwegian gov't, just to point out that the people and culture there seem to get along fine with socialism. We have a large Norwegian-American population in Wisconsin, and many of our 3rd and 4th generation family dairy farms still celebrate their Norwegian heritage.
Not that Norway is perfect... as we can see, there are still capitalistic elements in Norway that exploit people and the land, but certainly, far less than in the US.
Interesting article,
The first thing I learned is that Norwegians don't think about taxes the way we do. Whereas most Americans see taxes as a burden, Norwegian entrepreneurs tend to see them as a purchase, an exchange of cash for services. "I look at it as a lifelong investment,"
If we viewed taxes in America as an "investment," what a terrible investment it is. Shoddy services, despite some of the highest spending already in the world in a number of areas where we rank terribly low, graft, corruption, oh and endless war and murder...
(even with our "low" tax rates, which by the way, is an issue the article glosses over as in the US income tax is a very small portion of the total taxes people pay, see the tax poem http://www.yourdailypoem.com/listpoem.jsp?poem_id=337, our taxes cumulatively are very very high for many people, much of the US theft code is just hidden taxes)
I worked at one time in a government agency - it was 60 people doing the work that 6 could have done in half the time and with a 1/4 of the money, and the amount of waste, corruption, and the like was absolutely abhorrent and unbelievable. and it was just one department of 6 in this agency, all the same.
Our nation is neither free market nor capitalistic, our nation is some mutant, hideous hybrid of socialism, cronyism, and capitalism, worst possible place to be... any time an article starts with such an assumption, it already is barking up the wrong tree...
Seems Norway is also successfully only because it relies on sweatshop labor from overseas as well,
In Norway, the typical starting salary for a worker with no college education is a very generous $45,000, while the starting salary for a Ph.D. is about $70,000 a year. (This makes certain kinds of industries, such as textile manufacturing, impossible...
Hmm... hard to judge a country a success when it can't afford to produce clothing for its own people in house.
John, I never said Norway is perfect. But it illustrates that a socialist society which genuinely practices democracy (aka, is not authoritarian "socialism") is better for individual well-being than the various forms of capitalism.
Perhaps, John, you could point to an example of a geniunely "laissez-faire" capitalist society, that isn't also extremely repressive and authoritarian. Singapore is a great case in point. Even though they have one of the freest markets in the world as far as businesses are concerned, the state is incredibly repressive. Carrying illicit drugs on you is punishable by the death penalty.
And frankly, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a strong fair-trade movement for clothing in Norway. In socialist Madison, WI, we certainly have made a point of building solidarity with sweatshop workers in the (so-called) third world, and have a robust fair trade movement not just for clothing, but also for coffee, chocolate, and other goods we can't produce locally.
sorry to butt in here. Just want to point out, what economists call "free markets" are actually prison markets. The only reason the guy in Singapore shows up at his "job" at the sweatshop, to pull himself up by the proverbial bootstraps, is because THEY STOLE HIS LAND. If you gave him back his homeland, his natural family structure, his own society, his own food supply, his own energy... he wouldn't be working a slave job for anybody. When people were free (ie not part of the global prison), nobody was homeless, because everyone had a home (you build it). No one was charging you money to live on the earth. Your food was in your back yard, Markets have to do with allocating scarcity. When you are born into abundance, no mortgage, no property taxes, great health (see weston price's pictures), all the food you can eat... you don't need markets. You have time to live your life, do the things our species specializes in: sex, dance, music, drama, art, singing, comedy, intellectual persuits...Money grubber chisler types aren't going to have much of a place in societies like this. Who's going to go buy food from strangers when you have no idea what's really in it or how it was produced... when you can eat your own food? Who's going to ship food across the globe? The entire "free market" system is actually a prison market system and people participate in it out of coercion. If you don't join, you have no food, you have no home... Native people didn't have a less sophisticated idea of "property", they had a more sophisticated idea. They understood no human owns the earth, no human has a right to charge you to live on the earth, and as one Native teacher says, "No good club would force you to join it". All the "nation states" of today operate on coercion, at least the ones that show up on a globe. They are all fundamentally evil systems, in fact they are all different arms of one system. (and I didn't even go into how flawed it is to think all the other beings in the Universe are your "resources" to do with as you please, as long as they are within your"property lines".)
I agree Tomm. The so-called "free market" really just means that us debt-slaves get to choose our masters. Not much of a choice. We are still slaves.
Thanks again for suggsting the documentary on the Saami. It looks very interesting, and I will definetly check it out!
As a cheese maker, I think it would be very cool to work with Reindeer milk. So far I have cow, goat, sheep, and water buffalo under my belt. Camel and Reindeer are next on the list!
I would love to check out your cheeses someday, Bill, they sound awesome. Actually I'm in northern illinois as I type this, not far from wisconsin, visiting the kin. I guess I could drive into wisconsin and bring back some raw cheeses, but I wouldn't want to be attacked by a swat team crossing the border. I'm trying to get a couple goats I can milk for my one man band homestead in north florida. Might be a bit too hot for reindeer though.
Years ago, I worked for the California Dept of Health in the Waiver programs. They had us RNs traveling all over the state, except for LA area, (they had their own office and RNs). Instead of assigning us particular areas, they had us scattered. My patients ranged from Sacramento to Bakersfield (on both sides of 99), Fresno (one was not too far from OP), San Leandro, Mendocino county, Chico, Concord, Napa, Yuba City, Orville, Red Bluff, Grass Valley, Placerville. other nurses were scattered within the same areas. We traveled at state's expenses, (I used my own car as the states cars were always breaking down). I was on the road about every 2-3 weeks. It took me 4 hrs to get to the one patient in Mendocino county and 4 hrs home, 2-3 hrs for the patient visit (it was a complicated case), so I made lots of overtime on that visit. Another nurse had a lot of patients in Santa Rosa, not to far from my patient..... the supervisors refused to give that patient to that nurse. Some of the nurses didn't like going out to farms in the middle of nowhere...I hated driving into the big cities. It took me 20-30 minutes to write up a report on a new patient (we had 30 days to get it done) If it was a repeat visit, the report usually took less than 5 min and that's using flowery words. When I was not out seeing patients, I walked around Capital Park twice a day, dusted and re-arranged my cubical 1-2 times a week. That was the most boring job I have ever had. And total wasted tax payer money. I think approx 60-70% of my pay was paid from the Feds and the rest the State. The patients weren't the problem, it was how the program was run, poor utilization of man-power.
David
I should add that back in 2006, I organized and hosted a seminar by Sally Fallon. The title of her presentation was: “Splendor from the Grass: Healthy Children, Healthy Families, Healthy Farms through Grass-Based Agriculture”. Announcement of this seminar created a storm of controversy. I argued that we should allow the speaker to give her presentation and save the questions and discussion till the end of the seminar, as is normal practice for academic seminars. The seminar took place in the evening of May 18, 2006. It was open to the public and was well attended with an audience of about 140 people. The loudest critics of seminar never attended. For many people this was their first introduction to raw milk and the works of the Weston A. Price Foundation. Many people have privately given me a big “Thank You!”
Since 2006, I have not backed away for this food fight. For this Fall Semester 2012, I am teaching a new freshman course called “Traditional Organic Food and Farming Systems”. Link to course description: http://byrne.rutgers.edu/seminars/courses/traditional-organic-food-and-f...
I have 20 students in my class of many majors; five of them are premed. On my course syllabus I state: “The information presented in this seminar is not intended to tell anyone what they should or should not eat. Individual dietary choices are respected and tolerated.” The main focus of the course is on the history of traditional food systems and helping students understand why some people are returning to or choose to eat traditional foods. Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price serves as our main textbook. In the classroom this week we viewed the film Farmageddon by Kristin Canty http://farmageddonmovie.com/film/
Joseph Heckman
I find it interesting that people with similar educational backgrounds view things differently. My daughter-in-law has a M.S., Agronomy with a minor in Entomology, she's a handy person to have around. She can skin, gut and process a deer faster and better than many men. Even with all her education, she won't touch raw dairy,(she really isn't a dairy consumer anyway).
Kristin P.
Do you drink raw milk?
If so...where do you get it?
If you do not drink raw milk why not?
Respectfully....Mark
Mark,
As you know I used to drink your milk and Claravale milk just a short year ago. I also gave it to my young children. I also SOLD YOUR MILK for Dey Dey's at the Mar Vista Farmer's Market. I used to be a card carrying member of WAPF. As you notice, used to. Remember your e.coli outbreak last year? That was the final nail in the coffin for raw milk for this family. I've discussed all this and also why I don't drink it nor feed it to my children here and on my own blog. Why do I visit here? It's about as good writing as daytime soaps. The small plot twists take weeks to unravel. If you miss a day you don't miss much. But you keep coming back because of the drama.
Kristen,
I totally understand where you are coming from, and greatly appreciate your continued presence on this forum.
Thought I drink it because I spend a lot of time around dairy farmers, fluid raw milk has some major problems as a consumer product. The biggest one, that comes to my mind, is pH.
That's why I am a cheese maker. The drop in pH, and the aging of the cheese, has a strong selective effect against pathogens. Fluid raw milk does not have the protections of the cheese making process. You would probably be better off making a kefir or yogurt, and then aging it for a week or two, than with "sweet" fluid milk.
Of course, the best way to consume raw dairy products is as artisan cheese :-) More flavorful and safer
"fluid raw milk has some major problems as a consumer product..."
Well, you guys could talk to the Georgians, the Hunzas, and other cultures that regularly lived well into their hundreds on raw milk, and tell them your theory. Raw milk is actually much safer than pasteurized milk.
Things like e coli outbreaks, even if really from raw milk in rare instances, are small potatoes compared to things like epidemic levels of cancer, ms, lupis, crippling arthritis, debilitating osteoporosis... If you look at Weston Price's real world pictures from the 30s, around the world, you see that great health and resistance to infection and immunity to disease was the norm, for people that ate tradtional diets using raw dairy and other natural foods. The most glaring difference between those pictures of all those healthy people and the same races that switched to the establishment diet of processing, is the huge calcium deficiencies you see in the mouth's of the establishment crowd. Their teeth rot, their bones deform...
Dentist Weston Price's main assertion re tooth decay was that it was a type of osteoporisis, if you have teeth that have rotted you have a severe calcium deficiency. When you look for foods that are available today in grocery stores, that have a lot of calcium in them , you won't find too many, except for dairy. (Try eating large amounts of sunflower seeds and see how long you go before you hit a wall.) Dairy is loaded with calcium and you can eat it every day, milk, cheeses, creams, butter...
I ate lots of dairy growing up, but had lots of cavities. What's going on? Why do they say people that drink a lot of milk have MORE osteoporosis than non dairy users, when osteoporosis has to do with calcium deficiency? It defies common sense. Why do they say milk can cause a lot of mucous in the body, and so some say to avoid it? I finally figured out the answers a couple years ago. It's not dairy that's the problem, it's pasteurized dairy that's the problem. When you pasteurize it it makes it so you don't absorb the calcium, and also creates "lactose intolerance" in many people. I found old articles by doctors from the 30s amazed at how heathy the raw milk drinking kids were compared to the pasteurized drinking kids, no cavities, etc.
Several years back, this scientist drops on the scene with his own infomercials, Bob Barefoot. His main assertion, 95% of Americans have a SEVERE CALCIUM DEFICIENCY, and this sets the stage for all kinds of health problems, cancers, ms, lupis, arthritis, infections... When you are deficient in calcium your body fluids become acidic. People with cancer average 10 times as acidic as normal... Of course the FDA went after Barefoot for telling people about these things and how so many health conditions clear up when you remineralize your body. I don't think Bob Barefoot ever even heard of Weston Price, but if you put their ideas side by side they fit like a glove.
Barefoot doesn't seem to have a good explanation for exactly why 95 percent of Americans have a severe calcium deficiency, but it's clear to me it relates to three things; the pasteurization of dairy, the stripping effect of calcium and other minerals that refined sugars have on the body, and the lack of other foods in people's diet that contain a lot of calcium. (I eat collard greens every day now, because I can't get raw dairy easily, and collards are one of the few non dairy foods I can eat every day that have significant calcium...I force myself to eat them though. Eating real pizza and drinking real milk and real butter would be a lot easy of course if I had it...)
Saying don't drink raw milk because you might get infected by something is like saying children should be kept indoors and sleep in plastic bubbles... because if they go outside they might get stung by a bee and might be allergic to it and blah blah blah.... Yeah it might happen but for 99.999... percent of kids they are going to be much safer if they go outside and get fresh air and sunshine and play and develop their immune systems by exposure to small amounts of microbes... Forcing healthy kids to live in plasiic bubbles is just crazy. (in my opinion)
forgot to add, I was talking to a farmer a couple weeks ago, her friend had been diagnosed with borderline osteoporisis, and so switched to using raw milk, and just got her bone density tests back and they have now gone to normal.
"osteoporosis has to do with calcium deficiency"
This is not completely true. There are many nutrients (vitamins) and other factors that cause/contribute to osteoporosis. Calcium is only one small vitamin the body requires. The body absorbs and metabolizes calcium from leafy greens better than from dairy. It takes vit D3 for calcium to absorb from the gut into the bones, when vit D3 is low, it kicks in the parathyroids and they leech calcium from the bones. It takes vit K to direct the calcium into the correct tissues, ie bones or soft tissue (arteries). Eating a high protein diet (meats) increases your risk of osteoporosis. Animal protein increases calcium losses. Living a sedentary lifestyle increases your risk of osteo. Magnesium deficiency alters calcium metabolism (among other things)and the hormones that regulate calcium. Most Americans do not consume adequate magnesium. Magnesium is responsible for over 300 enzyme reaction in the body, crucial for life. vitamin D require magnesium as a necessary co-factor. When you take high doses of Vitamin D and if you are already low in magnesium, the increased amount of metabolic work drains magnesium from its muscle storage sites. That's probably why muscles are the first to suffer magnesium deficiency symptoms -- twitching, leg cramps, restless legs and charlie horses. Magnesium stimulates the hormone calcitonin, which helps to preserve bone structure by drawing calcium out of the blood and soft tissues back into the bones.
High sodium intake results in peeing calcium from the body. vitamin A, from supplements, can cause decreased bone density. Many people consume synthetic vitamins. Getting nutrients from food sources is usually best.
Americans consume huge amounts of dairy, yet they have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. There are tribes in other countries who don't consume any dairy once past infancy, yet the incidence of osteoporosis is extremely low.
It is diet (nutrition), sunshine and physical movement that prevent osteoporosis. Your body will retain more calcium from a cup of collards than from a cup of raw (or boiled) milk.
The effectiveness of calcium in preventing osteoporosis is impaired in the absence of adequate levels of magnesium. Magnesium keeps calcium dissolved in the blood. Too much calcium along with too little magnesium can cause some forms of arthritis, kidney stones, osteoporosis and calcification of the arteries, leading to heart attack and cardiovascular disease. Carbonated beverages also have excess phosphates, which accelerate urinary calcium loss.
It takes @ 10 years for the skeleton to totally regenerate itself.
" 'osteoporosis has to do with calcium deficiency.' This is not completely true. There are many nutrients (vitamins) and other factors that cause/contribute to osteoporosis. Calcium is only one small vitamin the body requires."
The phrase, "has to do with" allows for other factors as well. Calcium is not one small vitamin, there is more calcium in your body than all other minerals combined, If you have a calcium deficiecy, you could be in deep trouble.
"The body absorbs and metabolizes calcium better from leafy greens better than from dairy." This may be true for pasteurized dairy, but is it true for raw dairy? And what's easier to eat, collards or pizza?
"Eating a high protein diet (meats) increases the risks of osteoporosis. Animal proteins increase calcium losses..." Then how come cultures that lived on extremely high meat diets didn't have osteoporosis? Inuits had great teeth, eating all that seal meat and blubber. And see doctor Sir Robert Mccarrisson's studies of the people of India, in the early 1900s, his findings parallel Weston Price's very well. Some of these peoples, the northern Indians, "among the healthiest people on the planet", ate small amounts of meat, some ate large amounts, all were extremely healthy and long lived.
"High sodium intakes result in peeing calcium from the body." Then why were so many peoples that lived by the seashore so healthy? Okinowans, Polynesians, Gaelic fishermen, etc? Anyone that lives by the ocean is going to have figured out how much flavor natural salt adds to food, and use it liberally. In fact, making soups using sea water was probably very common.
"Americans consume huge amounts of dairy, yet have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. There are tribes in other countries who don't consume any dairy once past infancy, yet the incidence of osteoprosis is extremely low". Americans consume huge amount of PASTEURIZED dairy. You can be very healthy without dairy if you have access to enough healthy foods. But in the US, you're going to have to do some looking. A lot of calcium rich plants probably are cultivated in China right now, most people there grow their own food, but as to what those plants are, I don't claim to know.
The key to seperating fact from fiction with all the conflicting diet claims, is to ground yourself with real world examples. That's why Weston Price's pictures and similar research are so valuable. Meats, eggs, lard, raw butter, sea salt, fruits, vegetables, ... are great things. Hydrogenated oils, pasteurized dairy, dope laden animals, corporate big ag food, ... are the real causes of modern phenomenons like heart disease, cancers, obesity, etc. People, be very careful with "studies" unless you've conducted them yourself. The establishment is way more devious than most anyone realizes.
(and in my post where I mentioned sunflower seeds, I meant to say sesame seeds. Also, scientist Bob Barefoot's book is called The Calcium Factor, and Price's book is Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.)
"what's easier to eat, collards or pizza?"
I say that in my post above, but maybe I should have said, "collards or milk", because it occurs to me that to make pizza you heat up the cheese. Ok, here's my defense of melted cheese, but I'll admit upfront I can't be considered unbiased here.
One thing I know for sure: heating milk up wrecks the calcium aborption. I think the Weston Price Foundation says around 115 degrees or hotter ruins the milk. The question is why? I think it's because the heat kills the friendly bacteria in the milk, which are needed to digest it properly, and/or, because the heat destroys enzymes needed in digestion.
It could be that if you are a regular drinker of raw milk, then you have the right intestinal floura to be able to digest pizza cheese when you do eat it, absorbing the calcium properly. But like I say, as someone who loves pizza and in fact believes pizza should be considered one of the food groups, I cannot be considered unbiased here.
Tomm.
The reason that calcium is less bio-available in pasteurized milk has to do with the denaturation of milk proteins. Most of the calcium in milk is bound to the casein (curd proteins) and albumins and globulins (whey proteins or serum proteins) in the form of calcium-phosphate. A small but significant amount of the calcium is "free calcium" or ionic calcium, that is not bound to any proteins, but plays a critical role in curd formation during cheese making.
This biological matrix, in which the calcium is contained, is critical to both the absorbtion of calcium by the calf (or human consumer, as the case may be), and to the coagulation properties of the milk from a cheese making perspective.
By heating milk, the whey proteins are denatured and unfolded, which adversly affects the bio-availability of the calcium-phosophate. However, the threshold for protein denaturation is much higher than you suggest.
Normal HTST pasteurization (161.5F for 15 seconds) damages the proteins slightly, but not so much that you can't make cheese out of the milk. However, many industrial cheese makers add calcium chloride (salt of calcium) to their cheese milk to compensate for the reduced calcium bio-availability.
To really denature the proteins, you have to heat the milk above 180F, which causes the whey proteins to bind to the casein, rendering cheese making next to impossible. However, 118F is usually cited as the highest temperature below which there is no denaturation of enzymes or proteins. The denaturation is very slight above 118F, until you start getting closer to pasteurization temps.
That being said, the temperature definetly affects the bacterial activity, even at cooler temperatures. For example, the types of bacterial cultures which grow at 72F are very different than those which grow at 100F or at 38F (as a few reference points).
As for melting cheese, well, that is traditional in many dairying societies. In the Scandinavian tradition, there is Juusto (a baked cheese) and Gjetost (carmelized whey and milk). In the (eastern) Indian tradition there is Paneer (made from acidified boiled milk). In the mediterranean traditions, Mozzerella and Hallumi are both "pasta-fillata", made by heating and stretching the curd (around 145F)
Point being here, the use of heat in preserving dairy products is not unprecedented historically. However, transporting "sweet" fluid raw milk over long distances, thanks to modern hygiene, refrigeration, and motorized transport, IS unprecedented historically. This would not have been possible until the last 100 years or so.
I'm still a fan of raw milk, and always prefer to use it when making cheese because of the flavor complexity it gives to the cheese. But I think there is a fetishism of fluid raw milk, which sometimes borders on irrational. There is a reason why all traditional dairying societies made either cheese or a fermented milk drink with the milk they couldn't consume immediately and locally.
"There is a reason all traditional dairying societies made either cheese or a fermented milk drink with the milk they couldn't consume immediately and locally."
Bill, when I get my goats, this is exactly what I plan to do. (I don't use refrigeration, and probably won't, believe it or not). Living without refrigeration has given me insights into ancient foods, why people did things in certain ways, for example making sausages using the intestines of the animal, for the meat you can't eat immediately, making it into links so you only have to open a portion at time, smoking it to seal it from pathogens..., using vinegar to store your excess tomatoes.. leads to ketchup...
The thing is, I don't have the goats yet, and if I want to go to the store here in Illinois or in Florida to buy some raw milk, I can't. I am very confident what i wrote above is basically accurate, and I did cite the woman that healed her borderline osteoporis with raw milk. I appreciate scientific ideas, but I also realize no human I know is an expert on science. Who knows how to make an ant, or one cell of the ant, or one of the building blocks of a cell...? So we don't have experts on science to help us. We have people who know a tiny tiny bit of the science of the universe. That's why I'm very very interested in real world evidence, and hope people post their testimonies in this forum re their experiences with raw dairy.
Btw I can't wait to make a pizza using your reindeer milk cheeses when they arrive, if ever it's legal to ship them.
Sylvia, re your ideas about the importance of magnesium, Bob Barefoot also stresses this, and advocates a type of coral calcium with "the perfect proportion of calcium to magnesium" to help people recalcify their bodies, I think it's 2 to 1. Myself, I don't use supplements, but try to find the things I need in food. Correct if I'm wrong buy cocoa powder is one of the best sources of magnesium. I like to mix cocoa powder with milk and raw honey. (It's a challenge but I force myself to drink it)
To summarize, Sylvia and Bill apparently do not believe there is much difference between raw milk and pasteurized, in terms of the calcium you absorb. I believe the difference is night and day, and therefore, the risks of drinking raw milk are trivial compared to the benefits, because if you are calcium deficient, and anyone with tooth decay is (most Americans), you run the risk of all kinds of serious illness.
That's not entirely accurate, Tomm. I can't speak to how much calcium an individual absorbs from consuming raw vs. pasteurized. My understanding of this issue comes from the experience of making cheese with raw vs. pasteurized, and there certainly is a significant difference in the way they coagulate which is directly related to calcium bio-availability.
However, I would suggest that raw vs. pasteurized is not the only thing to look at. Animal diet, and in particular, the calcium content of animal's feed (which is related to the mineral balance of the soils it is grown in) is probably equally if not more important. Animals whose forage is calcium deficient will also produce milk that is calcium deficient.
I've not seen any studies that show there is a difference in calcium absorption and raw and boiled milk, so that is an unknown factor.
"what's easier to eat, collards or pizza?"
I say that in my post above, but maybe I should have said, "collards or milk", because it occurs to me that to make pizza you heat up the cheese. Ok, here's my defense of melted cheese, but I'll admit upfront I can't be considered unbiased here.
One thing I know for sure: heating milk up wrecks the calcium aborption. I think the Weston Price Foundation says around 115 degrees or hotter ruins the milk. The question is why? I think it's because the heat kills the friendly bacteria in the milk, which are needed to digest it properly, and/or, because the heat destroys enzymes needed in digestion.
It could be that if you are a regular drinker of raw milk, then you have the right intestinal floura to be able to digest pizza cheese when you do eat it, absorbing the calcium properly. But like I say, as someone who loves pizza and in fact believes pizza should be considered one of the food groups, I cannot be considered unbiased here.
don't know why I get these double posts, can we delete the second one? thanks
I don't recall where I had read that your body metabolizes more calcium from collards then it does from the same amount of milk. It is easier for your body to digest collards than dairy. The amount was @ 65% absorption calcium from the greens and 40-45% from milk.
I don't eat pizza.
Yea! for the Milk Opera or "As the bucket overturns."
http://news.yahoo.com/clinics-rush-warn-patients-tainted-steroid-0829156...
"Friday, the FDA released a list of about 30 medications distributed by the company, including other steroids, anesthetics and blood pressure medicine."
You have to search for what meds are distributed.....not very helpful for people who don't use computers...many elderly don't and they are on BP meds.
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/ucm322752.htm
http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/CORENetwork/ucm320413.htm
Do you think those who got sick will be suing Traders Joe's too? After all TJ sold the peanut butter and that makes it their fault too!!
http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/CORENetwork/ucm272351.htm
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/default.htm
We have the safest food supply.....NOT.
For those that are interested, Mark Barnett, Organic Pastures will be joining us on Smart Health Talk Radio Show today at 4:00 pm PST to talk about raw milk. Anyone can tune in that has a computer, cell, or notebook. Just go to KCAARadio.com and click on USTREAM to watch in the studio, or tunein to listen on the radio app. Type in "KCAA 1050 AM." I'm the host Elaine McFadden, MPH, RD who has an over 30 year history with organic food and worked as a dietitian/salesperson for Nature's Path Foodservice division for five years as well as one of the first to take on getting school nutrition policy changed in California that went national. I have enjoyed reading your posts and learning your side of the story. Hope we are able to get people thinking about raw milk a little differently today. Would be great if you can tune in. Podcast available after the show, and I will be building a new webpage on raw milk and posting the edited interview there as well. (www.smarthealthtalk.com) Thanks for all your work and sacrifice to make sure that we all have raw milk as an option. Elaine
I apologize for the error. Had been reading about an organic farmer with that name earlier and Mark McAfee must of gotten written over. Glad I finally caught my mistake. Elaine McFadden, Smart Health Talk Radio Show.
Hi David,
I feel I need to comment on this. While I appreciate you highlighting my article, and I worked really hard on it, I take issue with a couple of ways you've represented it here.
For one, the title. I was asked to write this piece because I have absolutely no stake in the debate. I'm not a researcher, a lobbyist, nor a business person with anything to gain or lose by coming down on either side of the fence. I just evaluate evidence honestly and do my best to communicate. So, I'm not part of the "dairy old guard". And if you are referring to the newsletter's other editors as that, then I think the fact that they asked me to write the piece because I'm independent strongly suggests that you are being unfair to them. On commissioning me, they had no idea what I would conclude, and I wouldn't have stood for them watering down or changing my conclusions to suit any ulterior motive. They did not try to do so in the slightest.
My second quibble is that my article clearly spelled out important statistics from the CDC, which show that raw milk causes disease at much higher rates than pasteurized milk. For example, "the CDC reckons the risk of a glass of raw milk causing a disease outbreak is at least 150 times that of a glass of pasteurized milk". I think this needs pointing out here for the sake of balance.
What I hope comes of my article is that campaigners on both sides take a deep breath, and consider the raw (gettit?) evidence afresh (and again?? :-) ). As I say near the end of the piece (and I do thank you for mentioning this!), we don't know the answers to key questions on this topic. Without more information I personally find anyone trying to polarize the debate to be unreasonable.
Thank you for calling my article "well balanced". I appreciate the complement.
All the best,
Anna
Anna,
Per the CDC statistics, I agree they need pointed out, as the biased, propaganda that they are. Real scientists researchers will understand that the CDC is no more science/evidence/fact driven than
When you look at CDC data, do you take it at face value, or do you look to see if they are handling the data even-handedly? I would suggest if you look, you will see, like with the line you quote above, the CDC is purposefully stacking the deck. If it was a casino doing this, they would face federal prosecution.
I think if you look closely you will see that they work hard to bias data and misrepresent issues, to the benefit of their real bosses - the big pharma/ag/food axis of evil.
For instance, in my home state years ago one of the farmers (who is also a high end engineer, and gets paid major bucks for short work stints because he is so good/well educated and sharp), pulled both state and federal data on raw milk. What he found was shocking - systematic miscategorization, misrepresentation, and general malfeasance on the part of the "unbiased" public health authorities. Numerous outbreaks involving improperly pasteurized milk lumped into the raw milk outbreak statistics. Death from cheeses made in bathtubs attributed to raw milk.
The CDC and many other data gathering agencies have shown they cannot nor should they be trusted - they have an agenda, and it is not public wellness and health, but industry profits and power.
This isn't science. This is slander. If only raw milk could sue them for it.
Anna,
Your point questioning my reference to "the dairy old guard" is well taken. I should have been clearer. I wasn't referring to the newsletter's editors specifically, since I know nothing about them and their professional and/or political views. I was referring to the funding behind the International Milk Genomics Consortium (IMGC). That funding is what pays for the operation of the IMGC, including the newsletter. Like a lot of things having to do with dairy, the IMGC is kind of murky. That's because the purpose in life of the main funding source, the California Dairy Research Foundation (CDRF), isn't immediately obvious. But if you look closely at its web site, which I linked to, you'll see that the CDRF is funded by the California Milk Advisory Board (CMAB). What is the CMAB? According to its web site, "The California Milk Advisory Board (CMAB) was formed in 1969 as an instrumentality of the California Department of Food and Agriculture to promote California dairy products in an ever-growing and competitive marketplace."
http://www.californiadairypressroom.com/About_the_CMAB
California is the largest dairy producer in the U.S. The CMAB's mission appears to be to promote California as the leading dairy producer. As such, it appears to be the main trade association of California's conventional dairy industry, hence the "dairy old guard" allusion.
Anna needs a lesson in researching, in grammar, in spelling - and in science and how it really works. The CDC can make the science say whatever it wants it to say.
I have been drinking RAW milk for over 13 years... My average is 3 gallons per week or over 2000 gallons in the last 13 years.. In addition I consume hugh amounts of Raw cream, cheese, butter, and raw eggs.. Never have i had a problem with any of it, and only rarely do i ever consume water.. I would also like to point out that Raw milk never goes bad... it just changes form.
All of the raw milk drinkers will LOVE this article.
[quote from article]: "The findings are clear: Children who consume more probiotics in the form of raw milk, playing outside more often and breastfeeding have less allergies and asthma." [end of quote]
Taken from this link - - - - > http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/hand-sanitizer-reports-allergies-and-as...
** Don't let the title in the link mislead you into not reading the article. It's a *don't miss* read! Thank you Case Adams!