Food Police in MN and CA Giving Us More Opportunities, and Incentives, to Resist

"We will not comply!"

That was the rallying cry from Raw Milk Freedom Riders leader Liz Reitzig and 200 participants at the Minneapolis demonstration Monday in support of Alvin Schlangen.

Alvin Schlangen, speaking with Liz Reitzig, hopes his supporters are taking his t-shirt message to heart. That was also the message when I visited the home of one of the moms targeted by the Minnesota Department of Agriculture for warnings of possible criminal action for allowing the home to be used as a drop site for farmer Michael Hartmann. The talk there was of anticipating possible actions by the MDA, and making sure, whatever the agency comes up with, not to comply. (You can be sure the agency has its lawyers and police advisers hard at work at figuring out options for trying to force compliance.)

And it was the message some of Organic Pastures’ customers have been giving to overly aggressive public health inspectors after the inspectors have telephoned customers seeking to confiscate milk subject to recall. Mark McAfee describes some of the troubling follow-up activity by public health inspectors with his customers.

It is a message that more and more Americans will need to become familiar with if they are going to protect their right to decide which foods do and don’t go into their bodies. It is a right the government and its corporate backers are moving ever more aggressively to take from us. And each time they don’t encounter serious resistance, they make sure to push harder the next time to expand their message of intimidation.

In Minnesota, the MDA a couple years back singled out one individual for serving as a drop point for farm products. Now, having judged the resistance to that operation to have been minimal, the MDA is going after nine or ten individuals.

In California, the Department of Food and Agriculture’s May 10 press release announcing a recall of OPDC milk, stated, “Consumers are strongly urged to dispose of any Organic Pastures products of these types remaining in their refrigerators…”

The key word there is “urged,” as in “encouraged” or “advised.” Yet the health department inspectors seems to be acting as if consumers are “ordered” or “required” to dispose of their milk.

The especially troublesome aspect is that these people, whether at MDA or CDFA or local health departments, see such activity as noble work. In their minds, each bottle of milk they grab from a consumer may prevent an illness, no matter how far-fetched the reality. In their fear-mongering view of the world, any notion of individual privacy and rights is subverted to this supposedly grand task.

The really scary part is that each such effort to forcibly interfere with people’s personal and private lives represents an expansion of the State's police powers. The notion of public health inspectors, or agriculture inspectors, acting as police agents with the authority to arbitrarily confiscate people’s food is so outrageous as to be almost laughable. But it is happening.

What is encouraging in both Minnesota and California is that consumers are beginning to resist. The decision by Dori Copperthite, as described by Mark McAfee following my previous post, to give a health inspector the heave-ho, and get her video camera ready for another visit, is inspiring.  As Michael Badnarik, the Texas constitutional expert and former Libertarian Party candidate for President, said at the Food Rights Workshop on Sunday, “We have to get rid of the idea that defiance is not allowed…Defiance is the key to freedom.”

Badnarik acknowledged that defiance isn’t easy for most of us, who have been conditioned to obey all orders coming from authority figures like police and agents. “We outnumber the government,” he said. “What we lack is the emotional willingness to act.”

The affronts to our food rights will continue to occur more frequently and on a more widespread basis unless we take to heart Badnarik’s sage advice, and Liz Reitzig’s refrain, “We will not comply!” There’s nothing radical in this advice—it was the basis of the founding of this country, of taking it back from tyrants who used the same kind of bullying tactics we are seeing in Minnesota and California...and much worse.

Michael Schmidt describes well in a post on The Bovine the dilemma that will confront ever more of us as the government campaign continues inevitably to intensify: "We have different approaches in the movement; the ones who are targeted and stand by what they are doing, and those who operate out of the public eye with the hope to not be the target. At some point, every one will have to face the music to either stand by their beliefs or their fear."

I laughed when I read that CDFA wanted consumers to dump their OP products. I'm glad I stocked up for my family. I think it's also time to get a cow share for back up. Really, I thought it would be easier here.

I'm encouraged by the moms and families who are standing up in Minnesota and California. Liz from Raw Milk Freedom Riders, juggling her sweet baby on her hip as she helps to lead this movement...just inspiring! Really FDA, CDFA, MDA, DTCP etc., didn't you ever hear the advice not to "make mama mad"? You're making a lot of mamas mad around the nation the more you do this. Pretty soon there will be too many for you to attempt to control.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

It appears that as the demand for raw dairy and healthier foods has grown, so has the harassment and oppression from the bedfellows of govt/big ag/monsanto types/GMO, etc.

There are waiting lists for many cow shares and community-shared agriculture (CSA). Indeed the demand is growing. Each time information, such as 'pink slime', or mass out breaks, like cantaloupe/spinach, etc. hits the masses, a few more move further away from the processed food chain.

As more people learn about the toxins in the processed food chain, more will stand up to the above mentioned bedfellows.

As others have said, there is concern that as the availability of raw dairy grows, there will be those who don't have the knowledge of cows and milk processing and will unintentionally cause illness for the people and the cows. The same can be said for those who are trying to start up small 'organic' produce farms, listening to some people- they lack the knowledge for safety for example; they would shovel fresh manure over the vegetables thus increasing any potential for bacteria contamination (I'm not sure if they know where the manure came from) and a lack of knowledge of the various types of manure and what they do to plants and soil, etc.

Since the amount of our country's farms have decreased significantly over the last almost 100 years, the knowledge base has shrunken too. There is a need for educating these new farmers and the public.

I agree with Sylvia, knowledgable gardeners and livestock caretakers are few and far between. Amanda Rose suggests everybody get a goat. Think about that, people with no experience and no one to guide them can turn that idea into their own pathogenic bacteria fest. I think Amanda should do pathogen testing of her own milk and probably some fecals and publish it here on David's blog. Let's she if she knows what she is doing. She has no problem critiquing other food producers.

Does any one have the exact language found in the MN constitution that talks about a farmer and consumer's right to transact business without regulatory approval?? What are the details of the FDA "cooperating agreement" with the MDA?? I always thought of MN has having kinder and gentler bureaucrats compared to Wisconsin, has something changed?!?!!

Wayne Craig

Sylvia Gibson's picture

Wayne,

I believe Amanda does have goats and chickens,etc. She does have the knowledge and she has access to those who have even more knowledge. She also knows how to search out what she doesn't know.

Unfortunately, many won't search out information,some don't know how to go about finding information, some may not know they are lacking in information or safety issues. I've been told "it isn't hard dropping seeds in the ground, feed them water and poop and that's all there is to it". I don't know all the details of gardening, I do know there is more to it than that.

Amanda Rose's picture

Thank you Sylvia. I don't have a goat right now. I have a rule of having only one lactating species on the property at a time...

Wayne -- The big advantage with your own small operation is that you are continually exposed to the pathogens in your specific animals and build an immunity to those specific pathogens. Think of it this way: Why would I worry much about my kids eating raw eggs if they are rolling around in grass and dirt with the chickens? They are exposed constantly at small levels.

The other advantage to your own operation is that you know what you've got. I bought raw dairy before that was being sourced from a 10K cow operation and I thought the cows were prancing on pastures.

I do appreciate your concern about small producers though, Wayne. We are seeing the results of hobby farming in some of these outbreaks.

Amanda

Article XIII Section 7 of the MN constitution

"Sec. 7. NO LICENSE REQUIRED TO PEDDLE. Any person may sell or peddle the products of the farm or garden occupied and cultivated by him without obtaining a license therefor. "

David Gumpert's picture

The Minnesota Department of Agriculture, along with local prosecutors, consistently act as if this provision of the Minnesota Constitution doesn't exist. The Minnesota Supreme Court has been wishy washy in backing the provision. In a 2005 case in which the state went after farmer Michael Hartmann for failing to be properly licensed to sell meat, the court gave the provision a partial endorsement when it stated: "In other words, we read article XIII, section 7, to exempt farmers from licensure to sell products but not from substantive regulation of the production or sale of their farm products."
(The full decision is here: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-supreme-court/1081314.html)

Lotus Lady's picture

The Government wants you to be compliant. That is why there is Fluoride in the water. It makes you compliant. The Nazi's used fluoridated water to make the Jews more compliant. If your state requires fluoridated water, get an RO filter. I'm thinking a lot of these moms who buy raw milk already figured out they didn't want to be drinking fluoridated water either--for health reasons. Turns out there is another reason as well.

mark mcafee's picture

Radiation tests were finnally completed at Silliker Labs for OPDC....they will be posted at our FB in the morning....non detect on any of the radioactive isotopes from the Japanese event. The complete report tested a tons of them....all negative. Fresno is in an area of little rain...rain brings in the radiation and drops it to the ground. No rain...very little if any radiation.

All CDFA recall biology tests are perfect and match ours. We are waiting for the pathogen tests to come back and then we should be good to go.

Breaking News!!....OPDC has made a major advancement and will hire a designated RAMP manager and Lab Tech next week. The job will be advertised and the interviews will begin. Our goal is a rapid "test and hold" program starting in a couple of weeks. The newest technologies allow a 6-8 hour turn arround on Coliforms. Our lab will be complete and we will 3M factory train the tech to manage our RAMP program and also manage and conduct the comprehensive test program at OPDC. All products that leave the dairy will have a date code with lab test sign off...no more...we think so or we hope so.

Now...it will be...I know so.

More news coming on this front next week. We are wrestling this recall to the ground so it will never ever raise its ugly head again. We deserve better and our consumers deserve the best...and they are about to drink the best raw milk in the WORLD!!! No questions. No doubts.

Just pure delicious organic certified pasture grazed raw milk!!

Barney Google's picture

Mark,
California is the hot spot of the world as far as radiation. You need to check out this video. You're lucky if you've avoided the nuclear fallout, since there has been many hundreds of nuclear tests in the California area in the past 50 years.
"A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed7ox9RzJZY

Plus, radiation from Fukushima was found in both pasteurized and raw milk just a year ago.
“9/1 (4:22pm): Two raw milk samples were added to our raw milk page. Both samples come from a single dairy the Sacramento area, and one sample is cow milk and the other is goat milk. Both samples show detectable levels of Cs-134 and Cs-137.”

"This direct comparison between Fukushima fallout and atmospheric weapons fallout in these soils shows that the fallout from Fukushima in Northern California is significantly less than the amount of Cs-137 that still remains from weapons testing, which has had nearly 50 years to disperse and decay.

"Basically, what this means is that in California, we should be more concerned about the fallout from nuclear testing over the last 50 years, than the fallout from Fukushima."
http://geigercounter.com/archives/902

Sylvia Gibson's picture

http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/UCBAirSampling

Berkly and numerous private citizens have been monitoring the after effects of Fukushima. There has also been in the news about the seaweed off the Ca coast being contaminated. Food from the Gulf is out as is the Pacific.

It's an outrageous violation of privacy to seek people's contact information and attempt to confiscate their food. It's one thing for people to voluntarily register their cars, baby seats, etc. in case of a recall and quite another for government employees to seek out and intimidate citizens into giving up their food they freely acquired. How spooky. Keep up the noncompliance!

It's also outrageous for a savvy, veteran seller, trusted by his customers, to cough up that list upon demand, assuming he didn't actively offer it to them (and then rush over here pretending to have done it out of naivete, like a kid with his first lemonade stand). It's bizarre that no one else here considers that the worst part of all.

But then McAfee and his fellow milk corporatists consistently call for appeasement and collaboration with the food fascists.

Russ = let us compare philosophical models, especially, the results thereof .... how much REAL MILK did you deliver today? To how many households?

Yes, let's compare. You're one of several here who lurch schizophrenically between deploring fascism (which you bizarrely keep calling "socialism"; news flash - the Cold War ended over 20 years ago, and corporate capitalism won across the board) and thinking it can be appeased. Well, which is it?

But it's good to see that you consider handing over customer lists to the state to be part of acceptable behavior. I take it you have done or would do the same?

Certainly, in the long run a full-scale food sovereignty movement will deliver far more real milk to more people than corporate collaboration will. That latter long-term number will be a trend line toward zero.

Why do you think OPDC keeps having these incidents? Either it's a set-up, and state persecution, which would prove the complete failure of McAfee's appeasement strategy. Or else OPDC is a lousy operation.

If the former, the fact that he does the same pro-state song and dance every time proves that no matter how they persecute him, he only wants to become part of the corporate fraternity. That's also why he constantly attacks small farmers and relocalization as such.

If the latter, then how many times should milk drinkers listen to this guy say "we've fixed the problem and it won't happen again?" How many times is it now for that exact spiel?

At any rate, we know for a fact that no one can trust OPDC with their personal information. They handed it over to the government without a warrant, court fight, or anything. God knows who else they gave that information (corporate marketing lists?). Anyone who's done it before will do it again.

Again, I'm surprised that this isn't the #1 scandal here right now. I'd be ready to wring the neck of anyone who handed over my name and address to the fascists without a struggle. (And I stress again, McAfee is an old veteran with a fully developed corporate mentality, not a novice small farmer. He knows exactly what he's doing.)

But again, we see your position on the matter, and what your customers can expect in a similar situation.

Ora Moose's picture

Russ, back off. Do you use credit cards? If so, the info on what you paid for is already out there for anyone that wants it. Do you use the internet? ditto.

From what I can tell, Mark is actually trying to do whatever it takes to stop this crap from happening to his company. Is he perfect? No. Maybe I'm just too naive, but from where I sit he doesn't seem to be the bad guy, on the contrary. He's making real milk available to more people than anyone else in the US, is that a bad thing? He's obviously a big target, but imagine he just folds and goes away. Would that make you happy and the world a better place? Look at both sides of the street before you cross.

Well, since I started reading here in September, and then looking back a few months before that, I've seen McAfee:

1. Consistently call for appeasement and collaboration with the state, as opposed to a self-managing, self-policing mutual aid movement. We've seen how things have gone since then, in California and every other state where the heat is on. McAfee's gameplan is a failure everywhere, while only the Raw Milk Freedom Riders (direct actionists) have made any progress.

2. Promote a coordinating body (RAWMI) which is to be organized, not according to democratic, decentralized Food Sovereignty principles, but as a corporate-statist hierarchy.

3. Be generally contemptuous of smaller dairies, and regurgitate the Big Lies of Big Ag about how agroecology and relocalization can't work. Recently someone here alleged that he ambushed the cowshares with an adverse proposal during negotiations with the state, after promising he was going to do something totally different. Meanwhile the proposed plan is unsustainable, profoundly unholistic "industrial organic" all the way.

4. Sneer at the movement toward active, knowledgeable, vigilant food customers as being about "secret handshakes"; on the contrary, RAWMI is supposed to cater to the same passive consumerism which has already done so much damage.

5. On at least two occasions try to shift the blame for outbreaks from himself to unnamed small dairies. After getting blowback the first time, he did one of his many "apologies". No one seemed to care much this time.

6. Said he'd prefer to see cowshares totally criminalized rather than decriminalized, if his own plan for legalization under corporate control wasn't adopted.

The fact is, McAfee's entire pattern of rhetoric and conduct is about how he wants, not to decriminalize but to "legalize" and corporatize raw milk, to bring it under the corporate rubric. But the entire thrust of the Food Sovereignty movement has to be democratic, decentralized, and anti-corporate. Otherwise it's just another scam. This is the same struggle that's playing out in every other sector.

"Do you use credit cards? If so, the info on what you paid for is already out there for anyone that wants it."

I'm sure glad I don't use it for milk, not that I think the farm from whom I get it would be a rat.

So your argument is that since we're all under varying degrees of surveillance, it's OK to be a rat?

Ora Moose's picture

Russ, again... back off. I don't know what rock you crawled out from under, but you are being way too aggressive in calling out people here especially Mark. Why don't you take a different tack, and tell us what you would propose, instead of just criticizing what you call corporate rubric. I despise the system too, but so far haven't come up with any better alternatives other than what I can do personally, ie supporting my local farmer and avoiding all corporate food.

And btw it isn't ok to rat, but I don't believe Mark did that intentionally, otherwise why would he own up to it here in public? live and learn, and teach. And teach, and learn, repeat repeat.

Ora Moose's picture

Oh, and Russ... I actually agree with most of what you say other than the specific anti-Mark stuff. I actually ask myself many of the same questions, and try to read between the lines no matter whose post it was.

Problem is, other than bartering with your neighbors or local farmers, how do you go about being part of the solution instead of problem? I'm not and have never been a big business entity, but what can you realistically expect from those who are? Yes they are in it for the money, but please examine their ethics and contrast that with OPDC.

Same question to you that never seems to get answered: Why are you here, instead of on blogs that discuss other risky foods like, you know... the ones that actually kill and sicken exponentially (look up the meaning of that word) more people? Are you posting similar sentiments about the large corporate guilty parties there too? Enlighten me, and I'll become part of that movement too.

My plan is the same as the plan of millions around the world - Food Sovereignty as the basis of a general movement for true democracy and relocalization. Sorry you consider that a "rock" from which one crawls out. I gather that many here are of the hang-separately "freedom for me but not for you" persuasion, and would generally side with the police, but only become upset when their turn comes. Certainly Gordon below is clear on that point. Nevertheless, I came here because I'm trying to find people who actually want to fight the corporate system, and because the persecution of milk is clearly a trial run for a far more thorough-going assault. (And because I'm a milk drinker.) The corporate-state system includes the industrial organic complex which wants to enclose the "organic" concept and gut it. I've seen more than enough of that where it comes to GMOs, and I reject the same thing when I see it here.

But it's disturbing that no one wants to make up their minds about whether or not the government is really out to get us, as opposed to sincerely caring about "food safety". In a nutshell, if it's the former, then appeasement cannot work. Much of the rhetoric here calls the system "fascist" (and I agree that it is), but then advocates appeasement tactics, as if on the contrary the FDA and its state clones were well-meaning, reality-based, but misguided.

Since you asked, I'll link my blog, and you can read all you might want about what I think of the food movement and politics and economics in general.

http://attempter.wordpress.com/

I only linked it now because some people seem to think that because I'm new here as a commenter, it means I'm new to this stuff in general.

Barney Google's picture

Russ,

You sound like a conspiracy theorist, good for you!!!

You will find most everyone has their own gripe about government but most will not do any research to find out the rest of the story. Once you start finding information, it's amazing how much it's ALL interconnected: money, power, greed, agendas, and oh yes, conspiracies!!!

I have told people in the past to find something that really makes you p.o.ed and research it, whether it be taxes, fuel prices, whatever, and you will be surprised at what you will find. Believe me there is plenty of crap to go around!!!

I was not a conspiracy theorist until my wife and I started and STOPPED selling raw milk.

I am sure there are many people out there who are conspiracy theorists also and don't even know that they are!!!

Don't worry there are getting to be more of US, every day.

Stay vocal and see what happens!!!

When 100% of the evidence indicates that there's a tyrannical strategy being put into practice, any responsible citizen must become a sort of conspiracy theorist. Certainly the whole system has long been engaging in a loose conspiracy against the people ("loose" because everyone in government, media, academia, etc. basically knows what to do: whatever maximizes corporate enclosure, domination, and profit).

Just yesterday I was recommending to someone that she pick something to research, and that she'd quickly become an expert in all that matters about it.

Sylvia Gibson's picture

"because the persecution of milk is clearly a trial run for a far more thorough-going assault."

I believe I've read similar words on this blog and others. There's a lot to read on your blog.

Lots of people recognize what they're doing. Especially with the recent passage of the Food Control Act and similar measures relating to food.

Ora Moose's picture

Russ: Great blog you've got there. Sorry if I came across as a curmudgeon, but in essence I am so please don't take it personally. I too am relatively new around here, and still trying to figure out who's what, but when someone new attacks old timers don't be surprised at the reflex defensiveness. Anyhow, welcome aboard and please share, teach and learn etc.

Thanks Ora Moose, no offense taken, and I hope likewise. I didn't intend to come on here and launch into a severe criticism of one of the regulars, but the customer list thing (so redolent of the way the telecoms and most IT corporations happily collaborate with the police state, and all too consistent with McAfee's general collaboration rhetoric) really burned me up.

Share, teach, and learn, sounds great!

reading your stuff, I'm severely tempted to rebut at length, but then I realize it'd be a waste of breath ... about 30 years from now, you'll be ready to listen, rather than spew all that palaver. Suffice to say, Chairman Mao did one thing right, when he sent the effete intellectuals back to the country side. And when you get there, Russ, don't rush into it, 'til you figure out which end of the manure fork to use... hint = it's the clean end.

Lola Granola's picture

Gordon Watson = Yippy little attack dog for anyone who dares question the Cult of REAL MILK.

Your pal Russ showed his colors quickly : what we used to call back in the days of the Cold War = "a com-symp". He's not on this forum to help us restore one of the basic aspects of America = self-reliance. ... He's been sent-in to hijack the energies of the Campaign for REAL MILK, for an ulterior purpose. the commies are wicked, but they're not stupid. He and his ilk make so much noise about " future conditions", yet they're child-less. When their gypsy caravan moves on, so will he. I'll still be on the farm, ensuring my children and grandchildren get the best food in the world,

Lola Granola's picture

And Mr. Watson shows his colors quickly as he never comes here to have rational discourse, but only pops in to attack anyone who dares criticize his precious BELIEF SYSTEM. Yes, Mr. Watson, if you relate REAL MILK to some sort of Bible Prophecy you have gone beyond health and freedom issues into a BELIEF SYSTEM, and as with all BELIEF SYSTEMS, one you need to protect at all costs, lest admit you were wrong. Pray tell, dear Watson, as you ensure your children and grandchildren have REAL MILK to drink are you also aware of the body of evidence linking casein to cancer? Or don't the Bloodlines suffer the same afflictions they unleash on the peasantry?

God! if there's a "belief system" evident on this forum, it's people who have a fanatical religious committment to Pasteur's germ theory, versus those of us who are willing to re-examine our pre-suppositions in light of fresh evidence. Jimi hendrix sang "there are things to realize"

I most certainly AM aware of the evidence, compiled by people like Dr Samuel Epstein, very strongly indicating a connection between milk and cancer. The book "WhiteWash" is an excellent summary of that material. But when we called the publisher to ask why author John Keon didn't distinguish "homo milk" from REAL MILK, we were told that the author didn't think there's any difference.

Those of us in the Cult, know from first-hand evidence, from accounts of others, and from revelations out of our handbook for governance ( the Bible, to you) that there's all the difference in the world between the swill merchandised as "homo milk" and the real thing

as your allusion to The Bloodlines ; consider this ; the God of Israel designated a certain tribe to officiate over the nation. It is the role of the Adversary to pervert every single aspect of what God made good. Everything good is supplanted by bad ... and "that which is good, is called bad." No suprise then, that we see a wicked elite positioning themselves atop world government, who continue their agenda via their own breeding program, towards the inter-generational goal of anti-christ world government.

Our trial on June 7th in New West. being just a tiny, local manifestation of the rest of that verse = " ...and the man who calls for Justice, maketh himself a prey"

Lola Granola's picture

Mr. Watson has proven my point beautifully, which is that he does not come here to have rational discourse but only arrives to disprove any who dare question his Cult. How much energy have you wasted having this ridiculous boxing match with me, and for what conclusion if not derailment?

I applaud you for your awareness of Joseph Keon's work, but with such provocative information at your fingertips the only follow-up research you did was to call the publisher? You did not talk to Keon yourself? Did you bother reference the other researchers who have found a casein/cancer link, or did you bother do a cursory internet search to find that casein protein is heat stable? That last bit of information makes your comment regarding pasteurization null and void for lack of research.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, your Aton-worshipping Bloodline slithered out of the Causasus Mountains 10,000 years ago and the rest of us have been damned by your legacy of enslaving "God's creatures" for trinkets and war. 75% of the world is damned to hell because of their genetic predisposition to adult lactose intolerance? I guess milk (non) consumption condemns the man according to the World of Watson.

quite the flying leap you've taken, Ma'am assuming an awful lot that has nothing to do with moi. ... you remind me of old Wiley Coyote chasing the RoadRunner right off into space ...

My excuse for not following up on "Whitewashed" is, a]- I don't answer to mouthy broads with too much time on their hands, and b] - "I'm busy" ... I have a full-time job preparing to defend myself in the trial which will be the watershed for the Campaign for REAL MILK in BC, thus, all of Canada. Thus all the other English common-law jurisdictions

apparently, once again, my sarcasm was too subtle for those "hard of thinking"... methinks there's a fortune for someone who comes up with a 'sarcasm alert' application / icon.

How do you know so much about this guy Russ? Wow, I'm always amazed at how the Internet gives people a sort of telepathy about others! Like the time someone decided that I had no children because of a comment I made. Oops-I have 4 plus one on the way :(
Telepathy Fail...

From what I've read here, it appears to me that Gordon Watson is not merely a "yippy little attack dog", but a very angry man looking to have a fight. I also find his writing rather incoherent, but that could just be me.
I guess the best approach to Mr. Watson is to ignore him.

I always feel that even though my information is available to those who want it, let them work for it. A little peaceful rebellion never hurt.

And a lot really helps!

Amanda Rose's picture

I noticed it, Russ. I didn't mention anything because I'm sure you all get tired of my playing my broken record and now I see you have a copy of it.

I interchange the term “social-ism” with fascism, ever since Wilhelm Reich taught me that ‘black fascism’ and “red fascism’ are just different manifestations of the same anti-christ spirit. Same with 'social-ism’ … the disguise used by progressives – read, communists – for their Fabian long march through the institutions.

As for your question “why do you think OPDC keeps having these incidents?” as explained on this forum by those on the front lines : the answer is beyond dispute = there’s an agenda from the highest levels of government, on down, to suppress raw milk for human consumption. The decade-long harassment of hundreds of other producers all across America, does not stem from Mark McAffee’s stance.

Your problem is that you don’t understand how long it takes for these political movements to play out. You fault him because he hasn’t provided the quick fix, within the 59 minutes of your attention-span. He has never pretended to have ALL the answers. The fact that OPD is actually supplying REAL MILK, today, while coping with the Idiots-in-High-Places, IS success in this battle.

What comes through is that you have some personal axe to grind, which makes you willfully blind to Mark McAffee saying – over and over – “we’re learning” . He’s doing what Benjamin Franklin recommended “parley, parley, parley”, attempting to stave-off the war with Britain

If you take it that I’d “do the same” - ie hand over customer lists to the state - you assume wrong. In BC, we were faced with that very situation : a so-called “health authority” demanding from our depots the names and addresses of owners of the herd. Of course we didn’t cave in. Your assumptions about my character / motive, are ridiculous against my track record, on this, and other issues. Our trial for contempt of Court starts June 7 ; come on up to New Westminster and see what “the belligerent claimant in Person” looks like, in action … quite different than chatterings from the peanut gallery by those who’ve “never heard a shot fired in angers’ as my old man used to put it.

You’ve chimed-in as though you know better how Mister McAffee ought to run a multi-million $$ corporation in the face of malicious govt. goons : so inform us all as to your experience on the particular topics of a] – actually producing REAL MILK, and b] – dealing with the state on anything more complicated than a traffick ticket ?

As for your boast about “neck-wringing” … beginners in political contests mouthe such bluster ‘til they get a dose of reality from the gendarmes, up close and personal. Twenty years ago, I ( ignorantly ) resisted arrest and went down in a choke-hold, with 3 Mounties on top of me. Get back to us after you’ve passed that lesson

If you have a better solution to tyrants stealing food out of our mouths, let’s see it. Start by answering my question: how much REAL MILK did you deliver today?

1. I see you can't meet my arguments, which is why you keep regressing to ad hom fallacies. (Much like your friend's attempts to malign people who post under pseudonyms every time he was losing an argument.) Sorry, but just because I'm not a dairyman while some others are means nothing about the quality of our respective arguments. (For the record, I'm an active citizen in general, especially interested in food sovereignty and anti-GMO issues, a real milk drinker, I've written some stuff that was reposted at Food Freedom and the Bovine, I work at a farmers' market, and so far I've been a small-scale gardener, though this year I'll try to sell some edamame.)

2. It's instructive how someone like you claims to want educated customers, but you show your true colors of contempt for the customer the moment one is uppity enough to disagree with your party line. Sorry, but like I said I'm a citizen who has to eat, and that fact gives me the same right as you or anyone else.

3. I don't have much sympathy for the plight of "multi-million$$ corporations" whose business plan runs afoul of bigger corporate imperatives. Corporations and economic "bigness" are nothing but creatures of big, aggressive government. Anyone in that position is the victim of his own misguided or malign practices. Did you see how Whole Foods and the other shills for the "co-existence" scam got hung out to dry on GE alfalfa? Where their alternative would have been to use their position to help organize a campaign to prevent any commercialization of it? RAWMI is a similar scam. In both cases, it's small producers and citizens who are supposed to bear the cost, while a few big "organic" moguls reap the benefits of selling out the movement. What a disgraceful contrast to the way larger farmers in similar positions helped support the 1800s Populist movement.

4. "Your problem is that you don’t understand how long it takes for these political movements to play out. You fault him because he hasn’t provided the quick fix, within the 59 minutes of your attention-span."

I guess I understand it better than you, if you don't see that RAWMI-type state-corporate plans are part of the disease, not the solution, which must be in accord with nature. You also don't know much if you haven't learned that what you agree is fascism cannot be appeased.
"What comes through is that you have some personal axe to grind, which makes you willfully blind to Mark McAffee saying – over and over – “we’re learning”"

And over, and over, and over. My only axe is to swing for Food Sovereignty. That means, among other things, hacking down corporatism as such.

"As for your question “why do you think OPDC keeps having these incidents?” as explained on this forum by those on the front lines : the answer is beyond dispute = there’s an agenda from the highest levels of government, on down, to suppress raw milk for human consumption."

That's true. So why do you think appeasement can work? And why does McAfee claim to believe that?

"The decade-long harassment of hundreds of other producers all across America, does not stem from Mark McAffee’s stance."

But this stance cannot end that harassment. Quite the opposite.

Do you think if there were zero outbreaks, the food police would go away?

I can meet your arguments, but I'm not going to indulge you in worship of your adolescent self-image ... like that other dunce who clutters-up this forum parroting the ridiculous boiler-plate communist slogans.

go back and read my post "Story Time" about Al Capone's contemporary, Sam Giancanna ; at the very end of his life, when they asked him what he'd do over, he said "I'd get a licence". Jesus Christ warned his friends about the vipers, then left us with comfort "I have given you power to handle snakes".... with the parasites and the predators who inevitably come slinking-around a wealth generator - which is what the Campaign for REAL MILK is - there are different solutions for different situations.

In his case, on the scale he's at, Mark McAffee is a genius : you cannot argue with success = he's feeding people. If he has a weakness, it's that he's too generous with his time, placating his critics. As he put America on wheels, Henry Ford said "Don't complain. Don't explain"

Sylvia Gibson's picture

"Did you see how Whole Foods and the other shills for the "co-existence" scam got hung out to dry on GE alfalfa? "

I missed this information....

You can start here. The basic sellout attempt:

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/organic-elite-surrenders-to-...

And how even this was too subtle for Monsanto, and how Obama directly overrode the plan in favor of Full Speed Ahead:

http://grist.org/politics/2011-01-31-media-reports-white-house-pressure-...

But the basic plan to use the total contamination of alfalfa, which the USDA itself admits is inevitable, to render the existing organic meat/dairy model impossible (because it relies on non-GMO alfalfa), and to use that as the pretext to degrade the "organic" standard to allow GMOs, remains the same. Vilsack and Whole Foods merely wanted to be more gradual and subtle about it.

Mr. Watson, I suspect Russ was speaking figuratively about "wringing their neck". Haven't we all used that phrase at some point, without actually intending violence?
Similarly, the axe he mentions is probably not a real axe but a metaphorical one.
Incidentally, I have not sold Real Milk but I do smuggle it to my family, which makes me a criminal in my state :)

ingvar's picture

Before Unified School Districts, ala John Dewey et al, there were "one room school houses."

I think The Complete Patient is like a one room school house.

Keep it up.

God bless all of you.

Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard

I would never feel comfortable purchasing milk from an operation the size of Organic Pastures. There's simply too much that can go wrong, and unlike the farm I patronize, there isn't the same face-to-face contact which I believe increases accountability. Plus, we actually see before our eyes the condition and cleanliness of the operation. I wouldn't merely trust a piece of paper that says a place conforms to a set of bureaucratic rules.
Of course, customers should have the right to choose a big business like OP. But it's ridiculous and wrong to demand the same regulations of a 30 cow farm as a thousand cow business, which if I'm understanding correctly is one of the bones of contention here? I beg your pardon if I'm mistaken.

I used to admire Mr. McAfee but I'm afraid I can no longer say that after some of the things I've learned about him. This latest act (giving out his customers' info) is really disappointing. Sure, he's under pressure but so is Vernon Hershberger, and doubtless there are others like him. Michael Schmidt doesn't strike me as someone who would cave like that.

In response to Wayne Craig, why do you assume that if everyone maintained a goat they'd poison themselves and their families out of ignorance? Don't most people drive automobiles without seriously damaging anyone? If citizens can be trusted to manipulate big machines at 65mph, often with children in the car, they can probably learn how to milk a goat safely; yes, I know, you have to get a license to drive but that isn't what makes a good driver. It's realizing that one has the power to maim or kill themselves, their passengers, or some innocent person and taking precautions to avoid doing that.
I think we need to have a little more faith in ourselves and our neighbors. Otherwise, we might as well start demanding that only certified experts with extensive training be charged with rearing children. Parenting is the ultimate example of inexperienced humans being entrusted with enormous responsibility... and generally doing okay (at least in our own eyes ).
Excuse my ramblings :)

I think you sum up the situation well, both about the need for food relocalization and why all the arguments against true democracy are fraudulent.

Parents must do okay, otherwise how has humanity endured? (Of course elites would say it's because of them, but the truth is the opposite.)