Judge Opts Out of FTCLDF Challenge to Interstate Raw Milk Ban By Dismissing Suit --Door Open to New Suit?
The two-year-old legal challenge to the ban on interstate shipments of raw milk ended with a whimper late last week when a federal judge dismissed the suit.
U.S. District Judge Mark Bennett threw out the suit filed by the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund on behalf of eight consumer plaintiffs against the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. He did so, at the FDA's request, without ruling on the substance of the challenge by the FTCLDF that the ban violated various plaintiff rights, including the right to freely travel between states and equal enforcement of the law.
He indicated that not only could he not rule on the substance of the case, but that he was obligated to dismiss it because there was no evidence any of the plaintiffs had actually suffered measurable injury because of FDA enforcement of the raw milk ban. "It is now clear that the plaintiffs have no 'injury in fact' and no 'actual or imminent' 'threat of injury in fact,' but only a 'conjectural or hypothetical' threat of injury."
The case generated substantial, and substantive, back-and-forth with the FDA, including the now-famous FDA declaration that “There is no absolute right to consume or feed children any particular kind of food..."
The case also led to charges and counter charges about the FDA's role in a raid by the Georgia Department of Agriculture on a Georgia food club managed by Eric Wagoner after he brought raw milk back from South Carolina for his members. After at first denying as "a bizarre allegation" Wagoner's contention that the FDA was involved in the raid, the FDA was forced to admit that one of its agents was present during forced disposal of consumers' milk following the raid, based on video showing the agent.
According to the judge, the Wagoner confrontation with the GDA and FDA came closest to demonstrating an injured party. Close, but no cigar, said the judge. "Wagoner’s allegations that the FDA, rather than the GDA, enforced the embargo and destruction of his raw milk do not generate reasonable inferences, because
they are conclusory and speculative." In other words, the FTCLDF didn't quite close the loop that the FDA had been instrumental in planning and/or ordering the raid.
The judge also bought into the FDA's contention that it had no plans to enforce the ban onto consumers. "Moreover, the record is now clear that there is no 'threat of injury in fact'...to establish standing for any of the plaintiffs, where the FDA has made abundantly clear that it has not and does not intend to enforce the regulations against any of the plaintiffs." Trusting guy, that judge is, to accept the FDA's word.
Yet the fact that the judge failed to rule on the legality of the ban would seem to leave the door open for a followup suit on behalf of a plaintiff that has been injured. There are a number of those, most recently Amish farmer Dan Allgyer, and all the food club members denied access to his milk as a result of the FDA's action in seeking a permanent injunction against Allgyer that resulted in putting him out of business late last year.
The judge had, six months after the suit was filed, rejected an FDA request to dismiss the suit. In acceding now, the judge has given a victory to the FDA, and a loss to the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, and all who support food rights.
This site's mission is to provide news and analysis about food rights and raw milk. Increasingly, our access to privately available food is under attack by government and industry forces that seek to impose their choices on us. The Complete Patient seeks to provide up-to-date information and encourage the development of community to maintain traditional food acquisition options.
Sorry to put this here. Not sure what to do with it.
http://theranch910.com/news/?p=945
What about those who died recently from consuming pasteurized milk? They are neglectful in not mentioning that.
From the article:
"Because many consumers have a desire to purchase milk directly from a dairy, Garcia recommends that if they purchase raw milk, they take steps to reduce the likelihood of foodborne illness by pasteurizing the milk at home.
"'You can pasteurize milk at home by heating it briefly on the stove-top to 161 degrees Fahrenheit for approximately 20 seconds, and cool quickly. And, in-home pasteurization machines can be purchased,' said Joan Hegerfeld-Baker, SDSU Extension Food Safety Specialist."
I had suggested this same idea a few months ago. There are many ways to support local farmers, and home pasteurization is an option for those who do not want the risks associated with raw milk.
And before anyone attacks me for this statement, consider this...do you support freedom of choice, or are you defending a belief system? Do you support a consumer's right to choose, even if that choice is different than your own, or do you support a consumer's right to choose as long as that choice is the same as yours?
Sorry to here about this loss...time to start another lawsuit. How about injury to farmers? OPDC has injury from the FDA after being ejected from 20 stores in Nevada. How about injury to consumers from the side effects of asthma drugs when it has been shown by PARSIFAL and GABRIELA studies in EU that raw milk prevents asthma. Both studies peer reviewed, published and un refuted.
Our routes continue to show massive increases in raw milk sales.....As the FDA oppresses....sales inversely increase.
The people of this country reject the FDA dogma. All the lies just stimulate sales.
FDA keep on lying...make your lies even bigger!!!
Here is the basis of injury.....the number #1 most allergenic food in America is Pasteurized Milk....listed at the top spot on the FDA website. The dangers are clear....how about anaphylactic shock and resulting death....if a judge can not see the dangers and injury from consumption og the most allergenic food in America then we have an even bigger problem.
I suggest an appeal. There are real injuries to consumers that are denied access to raw milk. If left with one option...the most allergenic food in America, death is a potential injury.
Perhaps, sitting on the toilet for hours is also an injury. Lactose intolerance and gas and cramps....that is personal injury literally. FTCLDF is trying hard. They are pioneering the battle early in this fight. We must all appreciate the stage of this battle. We are still early in Americas awakening. Press on.
Can you sue the FDA for lying?
Can you sue the FDA for lying?
Mark, The gov can be sued.....
"Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, the United States may be held liable in tort "for injury or loss of property ... caused by the negligent or wrongful act or omission of any employee ... under circumstances where the United States, if a private person, would be liable to the claimant in accordance with the law of the place where the act or omission occurred." 28 U.S.C. § 1346(b). That waiver of sovereign immunity is subject to a number of exceptions. If an exception applies, sovereign immunity is not waived, and no subject matter jurisdiction exists. Sabow v. United States, 93 F.3d 1445, 1451 (9th Cir.1996). Jurisdiction does not exist when the claim is "based upon the exercise or performance or the failure to exercise or perform a discretionary function." 28 U.S.C. § 2680(a); see also Sabow, 93 F.3d at 1451."
Be sure to cross your Ts and dot those Is. Use the written laws against them.
Oh yeah, there was a big stink in, I think 2009, Bush et al was pushing to make the fda immune from suits regarding any drugs that are "approved" by the fda.... The statement of 'protecting the health and safety of humans and the environment' goes out the window is bogus.
"the FDA depends upon drug companies for nearly half of its $680million review process for new drugs."
Is this a true statement? If so it show exactly why they don't care about the people. It's all about money.
Imagine what would happen if numerous people filed law suits against the gov.....More people would take notice of the injustice happening in this country.
The judge has a point. While people are being tortued in Gitmo at the hands of the US gov't, and Afghanis and Iraqis continue to suffer from the aftermath of brutal, bloody, illegal, and imperialist oil wars, us privileged middle-class foodies continue to complain about rather petty matters.
In other news, Union Square (in NYC, near wall street) is being turned into a police state, and (once again) occupy activists are on the front lines of the struggle to reclaim the commons for WE THE PEOPLE:
http://gothamist.com/2012/04/03/union_square_now_the_very_model_of.php
little aparatchiks coming around to the farm with badges as a pretext for dumping my food down the sewer, is hardly "rather petty matters". If what it takes, is, someone taking your very food away, before you figure out that liberty and all the rest of the in-a-lien-able rights, are predicted in the right to use and enjoy one's private property, then I hope it happens. And the sooner the better, you're disabused from your limosine-liberal mentality.
Actor Donald Sutherland was here in Vancouver last summer, pictured on the cover of Common Ground magazine, raising the clenched fist / the hall-mark of communism, along with the patented surly grimace, which says everything we need to know about the Occupy Movement = "we shake our fist in the face of heaven"
Living in the city does not automatically make one bourgeois, Gordon. I happen to have survived for most of my adult life without so much as a car, much less a limousine. (Riding your bike everywhere is a good way to keep in shape, and save money).
Once again, your silly conspiracy theories about "communism" prove the bankruptcy of your racist ideology.
Wow Bill, you think freedom is petty?? In case you didn't know those folks in Gitmo are there because they lost their right to freedom. How many times have we seen the quote about "control the food control the people" you really don't get it do you?
The folks in Gitmo are there because of the so-called "war on terror", and because they happen to have the wrong skin color and practice the wrong religion, as decreed by the official AmeriKKKan authorities.
I DO "get it" Baily, I don't think most in this movement do, though. They see a very narrow window of raw milk repression, and ignore the larger context of the growth of the military-industrial, corporate power, the broad curbing of civil liberties, and the economic austerity that accompany it all.
Bill, don’t you think the war on terror, racism, and religious persecution is about the loss of rights and freedom? These are the same rights and freedom involved in choosing what we put in our bodies. I think you want an idealized version of utopia where everyone is fair and equal and safe, a beautiful world where everyone has everything they need to not only survive but to be truly happy. And I think you think that if government did its job that’s the way life would be. But the human condition needs to strive, to exercise freewill and to work; it even needs to feel sadness and pain. Otherwise people get complacent and lazy and dependent, then greed and corruption and control seep in and the government takes over.
Sounds like you read a lot; you should read the book “The Giver” by Lois Lowry. It's a short fast read written for young people but great for anyone who wishes for a perfect world.
Hi Baily,
I read "The Giver" when I was in 4th grade. A good book... but you are missing the point.
This raw milk movement is totally missing the point. While MILLIONS of US citizens languish behind bars (not a single one, mind you, for anything related to raw milk) this movement is mostly concerned about groups of consumers who drive between states to transport raw milk for consumers.
These are privileged right-wing bourgois fucks, as far as I am concerned. IF they actually wanted raw milk legalized, they would come up with the necessary production standards (its not hard...) and present them to the proper committees.
Instead, we see endless conspiracy and paranoid speculation. If you actually want to take a stab at the lack of democracy in our food system, you could start with the amount of land in monoculture corn & soy production. Raw milk is distant 30th on the list of important food democracy issues, IMO!!!!!
Actually Bill, you’re missing way more than the point, including the facts. You only take what you want from what you read, see only from your own narrow world view based on your obvious resentment toward the “privileged right-wing bourgeois f--ks”. The only reason the raw milk movement exists in the first place is because those “proper committees” your so fond of are in bed with the industrial food complex, elected officials and the judicial system. Pretty pathetic to comment on a blog about raw milk when you clearly don’t know the facts and apparently hold the raw milk movement in such low regard. Maybe you have so many committees running your life you don’t have anything better to do.
my 4th Grade teacher taught us that people who use profanity have run out of anything intelligent to say. Regardless whether you have the intellect or integrity to admit it, the Campaign for REAL MILK is = white Christian Americans, re-awakening to our heritage, first of all in the food & agricultural laws of the Bible, thereafter, to the threat anti-christ red fascism poses to the property of which our God gives us stewardship.
In the Congressional Record for December 1924, your pal, Chairman Zinovieff of the Third Socialist Internationale, is quoted " We have exterminated the property owners in Russia. We are going to do the same thing in Europe and America".
At the Alamo, Col. Travis drew a line in the sand. That line has been drawn again, for us.
Gordon, others on this blog have called you out for being racist or worse. I will make no such accusations, but do want to point out that blanket generalizations such as "the Campaign for REAL MILK is = white Christian Americans" are extremist and misguided. I would bet you that people of all religions, politics, intellects, heritages and races, love raw milk equally if they have found it.
Keep in mind this is a blog about RAW milk and freedom of choice for those of us that choose to exercise that freedom, as far as we can.
I read your posts and strongly agree with some and strongly disagree with others, but I am glad that David does not censor any of these posts.
Please be conscious of our perception and sensitivities and try not to offend when you make your points, it only detracts from your credibility weather you do it on purpose or not. Thank you.
Bill - as a reminder, it is asked that there is to be no profanity here on this blog. My grandchildren happen to read this blog as they are learning more about food safety, food choices, etc. I really would prefer that they not have to see such vulgar languages. Your posts are definitely food for thought my family & me & have triggered many interesting discussions, but the vulgar profanity needs to be limited. By the way, my oldest grandson (16 yrs old) has been doing some research on some of your points, so obviously some of the things you point out are definitely food for thought.
I will second what several people are saying here about inappropriate language and racist references.
the received science at this point in time is : the DNA of Caucasians programs us to be able to digest raw milk into adulthood. Thus, it's fundamental to the existence of white people. Yet it's impolite for me to mention that the demographics concerning 'who wants REAL MILK, and why, are what drives this movement ?!
AG Eric Holder pronounced that America is a "post-racial society" . Those who cannot handle big concepts ... such as a reference to race when it's germane ... are the ones with a problem, not me. Malcom X is one of my heroes, and role model, because he loved his own people
Funny, I'm in the quiet car on an Amtrak train from Phila to Boston, and a conductor was just called in to break up a fight between a woman who was trying to sleep and a guy talking on his cell phone. The conductor looked puzzled about what to do. Told the guy to try to talk in another car. I smiled at the conductor as he walked by me afterwards. He smiled back. "Not part of the job description, huh?" I said to him. "Definitely not part of the job description," he said. Kind of how I feel here sometimes. Gordon? Bill?
David
Is it OK to say that racial difference is one of the basic facts in the human condition? Are we grown-up enough to handle that much? How that FACT figures in the Campaign for REAL MILK, is what I've been trying to explain with my limited command of the English language. I don't apologize for trying to help people understand what's going on in order to improve the situation. 30 years' in politics taught me that = people are all at different stages of understanding. But my policy is the opposite of BIll-ary Clinton. If you're left behind in the discussion, child, that's your problem
The Marxists have done there damn'dest to stifle understanding and intelligent dialogue on the race issue ... and look how well they've done ? It's all but illegal to mention the "R" word, even when scientific facts are the crux of the issue.
My religion informs me that, white people, Caucasians, being the direct descendants of the man, Israel, are heirs of the promise our God made to our progenitors. Milk and honey are part of that bar-gain. Our enemies know this better than we do. Since the day of Baalak, : they know they cannot prevail in a hot war, so they're destroying the nation by subterfuge, in which poisoning wells / cutting off the food supply, literally and figuratively etc are classic tactics of war. Read the Declaration of Independence, some time .... were they fools for believing that America has enemies, foreign and domestic? Maybe those giants knew something that's been hidden from the nation today, by the race traitors in high places
in FACT, Americans are dying of diseases in which obesity is a symptom, meanwhile starving for lack of proper nutrition. That did not "just happen by accident". Franklin Rooseveldt said" when something happens in politics, you can be sure it was planned" Should I use Steve Martin's line every time I post? preface my comments with a sarcasm alert = "well excuuuuuuuse me!" for disturbing you-all, by being so impolitic as to voice an important aspect of the bigger truth, as it applies to us feeding ourselves ?
One last comment and there will be no more for you, Gordon. Suffice it to say, I love and appreciate my dogs and chickens much more than I ever could love or identify with some people, regardless if they are caucasian, marxist or catholic. How's that for a racial comment?
Not that I'd want to start any wars based on any of that.
Gordon, again you are antagonizing and being narrow minded due to your preconceptions. Where is the science/studies behind "'who wants REAL MILK, and why, are what drives this movement ?! " I don't believe that they exist, so... Why do you think this, is it based on your personal contacts or internet redundancy?
I don't want to engage you any further or conduct any personal attacks, but I am starting to see why some posters have a problem with you and your comments, and evidently got banned from some other sites that I'm not familiar with.
If you REALLY think race and ancestry has anything to do with anyone, Black or white or asian or hispanic choosing to drink RAW milk, without being offensive I'd suggest you are delusional. Sorry, but eventually it becomes obvious. Have a nice life and try to smile often, it only costs pennies more.
Also, more news from the Occupy frontlines:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167177/nearly-eighty-arrested-san-francisc...
This is discouraging news. I think we citizen-consumers need to test that assertion of the FDA; that it won't enforce regulations against any of the plaintiffs [or presumably other raw milk drinkers who are not farmers].
So the FDA gets to hide behind the state departments of agriculture? I hope that won't last for long. As the pattern of repression grows in frequency, it will become more obvious and irrefutable.
the pattern of repression is already as obvious and irrefutable as can be, to those with eyes to see.
sounds to me like you're ready to go 'bear-baiting' . Listen to George Gordon explain what's necessary for setting up a sting to get a good set of facts for a constitutional challenge
what you want is a bunch of people who live in a state where REAL MILK is illegal, who individually pay someone to cross the state line, into a state where REAL MILK is legal. WITH A LETTER OF AGENCY FROM EACH OF THOSE INVOLVED, DIRECTING HIS OR HER AGENT TO BUY SOME MILK FOR THEM, AND BRING IT BACK TO THEM. Make sure the Agent has in hand the precise, payments, kept discrete. Rather than bulk breaking, that Agent is then making a bunch of separate purchases on behalf of individuals
As long as this works, and the FDA leaves you-all alone, then just keep on doing it. If the FDA does intrude on this private association, those individuals will have a premise for redress, such as the Ohio case indicates. That Judge actually did all-concerned a favour = spelling-out the lesson. Much as happened with George Gordon in his "weigh-scale sting'.
exactly shana. if any state agency tries to "embargo" raw milk coming across state lines then let the legal defense fund know about it. if such a situation should happen i would advocate that the state agency lacks authority to embargo a product that crosses state lines, and that any such embargo order should be immediately challenged. so, if anyone does receive an "embargo" or condemnation order from a state agency related to raw milk crossing state lines, let the legal defense know and we'll take appropriate action. state agencies lack the authority to regulate raw dairy products crossing state lines.
(From previous post)
Mark,
You do not understand the problem with FTCLDF. Behind all of the “good work” they do is an organization which continues to convince farmers, through their Cow-Share College, to give up the rights they have as individuals under the Constitution in favor of incorporation. As creations of the state, corporations only have the rights granted to it by the state.
Countless farmers have gotten themselves into way more trouble than they could have imagined thanks to FTCLDF, and as farmers find themselves in legal limbo due to these cow-shares, FTCLDF has the nerve to recruit even more farmers into this model. Is this ethical? Is this okay, because on the other hand, they do “good work”? It appears to me that they’re just recruiting farmers onto the sinking ship.
barney, i'm pretty positive that's NOT what the legal defense fund advocates. to the contrary, we suggest that individuals, not "corporations," own the cows. and in the instant case involving 1240.61, "cow shares" were not even an issue.
the problem with the judge's decision is that fda's "plans" for "not enforcing" the law are not binding. thus, we have to wait until fda does indeed enforce the law again and we will probably be back in court trying to put a stop to it. if anyone gets a visit or a letter from fda threatening an enforcement action let us know and we'll take appropriate action.
in BC we have the precepts of "officially-induced error" and "bureaucratic indifference", as defences. Last year, the Fraser Health Authority published an official statement here, that it would not enforce the regulation which outlaws raw milk for human consumption, pending our constitutional challenge. But last week the Inspector slapped cease+ Desist Orders on an employee of our cowshare, then the owners of the farm we rent. Who's running the show?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/spicy-tuna-roll-salmonella_n_14...
Do you think sushi will now be banned?
Thanks for the link Sylvia. Remind me why I like food in it's unprocessed state rather than for example, spicy salmon burger mix.
"FDA spokesman Curtis Allen would not confirm or elaborate on the information, saying the memo "contains numbers of cases and hospitalizations that cannot be confirmed at this time. It is too early to speculate on the cause of the outbreak," Allen said. "The memo notes there is likely a 30-day lag time between when people become sick and when cases are reported to health officials."
Right... unless it might involve raw milk, in which case the food source gets shut down before the proof comes in. Guilty until proven innocent, and then it's often too late for a small non-corporate business.
Reading the comments there, is like a parallel universe to raw milk.
Example: "Raw fish, raw meat......not a good idea..... Why many don't eat Sushi"
Right, they just eat sterilized factory food which is why, sooner or later they will get sick. Makes you wonder how many people ate the very same product and did NOT get sick. Not that this thought would ever occur to the prosecution minded blame-gamers.
turtles have been banned for decades. no turtles in interstate commerce.
Las Vegas seems like the logical place to do this. A buyers club that rendezous with the OPDC truck in CA and takes special orders across the state line. That could work.
My injunction does not address selling inside of CA...I just can not drive across the state line.
I am so sick and tired of the FDA. The Sushi comment by Sylvia, brings it all home. Sounds so "fishy" to me. I love Sushi...
Perhaps all raw milk consumers should make a pact, if you ever get diarrhea from anything....claim everything. Claim, sprouts, sushi, spinach, salsa, hamburger, deli meats, pasteurized ice cream...claim the top ten list for the FDA most risky foods. Really drive the PULSENET system digitally bonkers.
http://healthfreedoms.org/2011/03/29/industry-wide-use-of-meat-glue-stic...
I strongly encourage people to buy from local farmers, if you must, learn to cut your meats... Butchering chicken is easy, as is grinding your own ground beef...Sharp knives are terrific! Many years ago, my parents had my brothers friend raise a calf for beef on his small farm, My brother and his friend butchered the steer.
The FDA has made this abundantly clear and the extension specialist Garcia is an extension educational mouthpiece of the FDA. They have pledged a full-on educational effort to discourage raw milk consumption across America. You see it here.
I was part of a conference call with the State of Washington regulators and several raw milk producers last week in an effort to smooth over and discuss some issues that WA state is having with some irrelevant Q fever issues and raw milk. The CDC reports one case in 9,000,000 people nationally and they call for action about raw milk from Q fever that is not even transmitted by raw milk. It is transmitted by contact with amniotic fluids from the new born calf.
The FDA is going to do anything they can to destroy raw milk....anything. Even harping about data from 90-100 years ago. They refuse to even mention any recent studies PARSIFAL or GABRIELA etc.
Nealry all of Garcias comments center on Campylobacter. Just found out that campylobacteria is cold sensitive...it dies off when milk is frozen. Just an FYI....if you are really paranoid, freeze your raw milk. Also....campy is a one shot illness and most get over it very quickly and then have a titer to it for life. One of the great gifts of raw milk is its immunity building elements...this includes immunity to travelers diarrhea.
I went and saw "Hunger Games" last evening. I did not love it...but it sure as hell makes you think about our choices, life and food as a control mechanism. In a "world after Farmageddon" the surviving people are enslaved to a super rich class of filthy rich that keep them oppressed by control of food. To get food...the masses must participate in a pagan lottery of life, where the children that have recieved food from the rich,fight to the death as the super rich wager on the outcomes of this fight. The more food you get from the rich the more times your names gets entered into the lottery.
All very sick...but all very FDA and Food Inc.
These FDA bastards ( and their bed partners ) are the control drunken super rich and they are demanding that we all conform to their definition of what food is....as we dollar vote for this super processed garbage food we enter into the death lottery of life and our children do pay with their lives.
No Hunger Games for us....the conscious. Drink your raw milk, eat your grass fed beef, ferment your foods, breast feed your children, eat pastures eggs, avoid antibiotics and refuse vaccinations.....Thrive. Stay out of the lottery. The FDA said it themselves.... " Russian Roulette with your health". This was a Freudian slip of the truth. Interesting...Life Lotteries and Roullette...The odds are worse than Roullette....with 1 in 3 kids with diabetes....insane.
It is all so clear.
Besides farming my dh and I own a movie theatre in our small town. We are showing that movie and it has promoted interesting discussion, especially with middle school/high school students. The only power people have over you, is what you give them. A very easy thing to say, often a difficult thing to live. But it is true.
What's your strategy?
A few quick links for your reading pleasure, or perhaps to extend your exasperation:
http://www.helladelicious.com/our-food/food-facts/2012/03/four-common-an...
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Market/US-judge-dismisses-milk-price-fi...
https://www.farmtoconsumer.net/EducationalDVD-Farmageddon.asp
David: Hope these are ok to post here, feel free to delete if not.
One more, this one's for Mark. Guess I'm going to have to go see this movie soon, sounds very interesting:
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/cover-story-excerpt-jennifer-law...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/pink-slime-ammonia_n_1404287.ht...
"This is not a health issue," said Bill Marler, a prominent food safety lawyer. "This is an 'I'm grossed out by this' issue."
Yes, it is a health issue. It is fraud, out right lies to the public. The public was never given the information of what was put in and on the product. It was sold as ground up beef. NOT adulterated meat scraps. Consuming ammonia is NOT healthy.
"The food supply is full of all sorts of chemical additives that people don't know about," said Michele Simon, a public health lawyer and president of industry watchdog consulting firm Eat Drink Politics."
Indeed it is, more so than anyone ever imagined.
"That is because it is often considered a "processing aid," which is not required by U.S. regulators to be included on food labels"
This should be disturbing to everyone.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/opinion/kristof-arsenic-in-our-chicken...
None of us should be shocked or grossed out by the methods and ways that is game is played.
It is all FOOD INC food spin. Nothing is beyond corporate America when it comes to making money and burying the truth behind their FDA approved labels. Change takes a true disaster to come to pass. The worse the incident the faster the change.
We should embrace the sick humor and get really good at exposing the dark side to bright light.
Mark, I think it's really great that you post here despite frequent attacks and present your perspective, I find it extremely valuable. It would be much easier for you to dictate to one of your workers and have them post here under a pseudonym... which some of us choose to do but should not be interpreted as being cowardly. If anyone wants to know my real name or more, just contact me. ( I am not in the milk or farm business.)
I do however sometimes wonder about how you straddle the line between "corporate America when it comes to making money and burying the truth," because you are after all a fairly large for-profit business entity.
Some of the personal attacks on you come from much smaller raw milk farmers, and I understand their concerns too. For me, it's a much larger issue than just milk, it's more about food freedom or just plain freedom regardless of food.
So my question is: What do you see as our raw milk Pearl Harbor or 9/11 event? What kind of disaster will it take, and does it have to be manufactured or government initiated?
This is not intended to be a personal attack at all, just an inquiry to someone that might actually be able to shed some light in a very long tunnel.