The Turbulence Around the Oregon Raw Milk Outbreak: Watch Out for the Crashing Jet
The outbreak of raw-milk-linked illnesses at Foundation Farm in Oregon has the potential to be a watershed event--an event that changes people's fundamental views on raw milk safety and production.
By any measure, it's a serious situation. The Oregon Health Authority reports that 19 people have been sickened, 15 of them young people (under 19 years of age). Four children have been hospitalized with kidney failure.
Moreover, E.coli O157:H7 uncovered at the farm, and in one sample of milk, has been matched to eight of the individuals who were sickened. It seems clear that the farm's milk made people very sick.
The reverberations will likely be significant, both in terms of potential long-term ill effects for the children, and serious personal-injury lawsuits for the farm owners.
The episode has given pause to many raw milk drinkers, first and foremost, members of the Foundation Farm herdshare. One member of the 48-family herdshare, who wasn't sickened and doesn't want to be named, explained to me in an email:
"I was sickened once by raw milk and left that farm. It took me a while to find another dairy that wasn't making those same mistakes and Foundation Farm passed muster. I asked lots of questions about philosophy, food safety processes, animal husbandry, and observed their milking process. No matter how diligent you are shopping as a customer, in the end you have to trust that what you see when you inspect is what occurs every day. The (owners) use contemporary small scale farm food safety precautions in milking, handling raw milk, cleaning udders and milking equipment. They are conscientious and care passionately about providing safe, healthful, and nutritionally dense food.
"Obviously something went very wrong or wasn't done right in their milking process, or the milk contamination and e.coli infections never would have happened. Even one mistake can lead to disaster, and this time disaster struck hard. They're reassessing every single step in their milking and handling process to do every thing they can to make sure this never happens again with milk from their farm. My own responsibility is to study up so that when those new procedures are in place and the farm re-opens, I can evaluate and hopefully know where I stand on a raw milk pathogen exposure risk scale and if I'm confident those new processes provide enough safe guards."
Among raw milk drinkers having no association with the herdshare, there is unease, even resentment, as well. On the OregonLive web site, which has been reporting on the outbreak, one reader stated: "It really is too bad these bozos have to give the entire raw milk movement a black eye with their unsanitary conditions. If people only took the time to educate themselves and know how healthy raw milk can be."
Said another: "The named Wilsonville farm gives a black eye to raw milk. Overall, raw milk is safe. Lots of great cheeses are made from it. If you have your cows stand in mud, crap, and splash their udders, you're going to cause disaster to unwitting milk buyers."
The unease has spread among producers as well. I am told the Oregon outbreak has convinced at least some herdshares in California to shift their positions on raw milk standards. Herdshare representatives have been negotiating a possible compromise with the California Department of Food and Agriculture over the state's role in regulating the operations. The negotiations had stalled over the insistence by herdshares that there be minimal sanitation and safety guidelines for the herdshares. Now, herdshares seem more receptive to the state's approach, which includes voluntary standards for coliform, standard plate count, and other measurable items.
The shift would seem to open up an opportunity for the Raw Milk Institute to act as a representative of herdshares in California, and perhaps in other places, like Oregon. When RAWMI was first announced last year, there was widespread opposition to RAWMI among smaller dairies, especially those with herdshare and food club arrangements. They saw RAWMI as serving in the role of substitute regulator.
Now, in the new atmosphere, RAWMI may stand to benefit from something of the attitude, "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know."
Certainly many opponents of raw milk are taking satisfaction in what is going on in Oregon. A dairy industry publication has an article repeating the old industry adage that raw milk illnesses give the entire dairy industry "a bad name." The industry doesn't want to acknowledge that raw milk illnesses merely give its competition (raw milk) a bad name...because the industry doesn't want to acknowledge how much it fears the competition.
For raw milk supporters, it's tempting to resort to similar sound bites--that people get just as sick from other foods, that the zero-tolerance expectations for raw milk are unrealistic, and so forth.
No, it's time for the raw milk community to begin accepting the reality that, for better or worse, raw milk, and raw dairy in general, is by its very nature a lightning rod. Illnesses attract attention that are way out of scale compared to other foods.
It's a situation comparable in certain respects to airliner disasters. We know that, statistically, auto travel kills many more people in a year than airliner crashes, even in their worst years. Yet even a single airliner crash attracts massive media attention--how could this have happened, why aren't there better safeguards, the grieving relatives, the story of the guy or gal who happened to miss the doomed flight.
The reason we ignore the statistical realities when an airliner crashes is that the event is inherently much more spectacular than any car crash...indeed, than any ten or twenty car crashes. Maybe because those in a passenger jet have no control over what happens, while in a car, there is some measure of perceived control. Whatever, there is an emotional component to airliner crashes that renders data nearly irrelevant.
Raw milk illnesses like what happened in Oregon are similar in the sense that there is an emotional component that renders the larger database nearly irrelevant. The emotional component is that children seem likelier to be sickened in raw milk outbreaks than with other food illnesses. So even while illnesses from raw milk only account for one-half of one percent of all reported illnesses each year, they get public attention far outweighing their statistical impact.
Like the phenomenon or hate it, blame it on Big Dairy or the lawyers, that's reality. That means the tolerance levels for raw milk illnesses are much lower than for other foods. Producers and consumers are going to need to accept that reality, and adjust accordingly. Denial and burying heads in the sand aren't going to cut it much longer. Producers need to figure out how to keep improving their processes, and guard against tragic letdowns.
**
The Raw Milk Freedom Riders will be putting on a two-day event May 13-14 in Minnesota in connection with the upcoming trial of Alvin Schlangen on charges of selling raw milk and other foods without proper permits. There will be a repeat of the "Know Your Rights Workshop" that was such a big hit in Wisconsin earlier this year, and a demonstration outside the courthouse where Schlangen faces a trial expected to last three days.
This site's mission is to provide news and analysis about food rights and raw milk. Increasingly, our access to privately available food is under attack by government and industry forces that seek to impose their choices on us. The Complete Patient seeks to provide up-to-date information and encourage the development of community to maintain traditional food acquisition options.
Very nice article, David - I like your comparison to jet airliners. Maybe now people will see the importance of delineating whether the milk is "clean" or "dirty" in conversations about "raw" vs. "pasteurized".
David, It appears a select few say that raw milk contamination is rare or doesn't happen. Now, those who oppose raw milk appear to be constantly stating that all or most all raw milk advocates state that raw milk is always safe and kills 'pathogens'. It seems that most do agree that raw milk, just like any other food has the potential to be contaminated.
The farm has three that are lactating cows. They've been producing milk for over a year and all of the sudden something went wrong. Will the govt help find out what went wrong? Or will they get on their soap box about playing "Russian Roulette" ? The lawyers are circling like scavenger sharks.
"Lake Oswego: Raw sewage may have leaked into Tryon Creek, and officials are urging caution for anyone entering the area."
Yummy raw sewage....
Sylvia, my understanding is that this dairy was producing raw milk for a couple of years before it organized a herdshare a little over a year ago. It apparently didn't need permit because it had three or fewer cows.
Will the regulators help find out what went wrong? Good question. I wish they would, but I doubt they will. In most states, they want raw milk producers to go away. Maybe someone knows what might happen in Oregon?
David said, "Maybe someone knows what might happen in Oregon?"
From a recent article:
Jim Krahn, executive director of the Oregon Dairy Farmers Association, told Food Safety News that the tragic part in all of this outbreak is that there was no reason for the people to have become ill. "It was preventable," he said. "That's the sad part." Looking ahead, Krahn said the dairy industry will be talking with state legislators, Department of Agriculture and Public Health departments, scientists and people in the dairy industry about a possible solution that will "hopefully find a path that protects children and others" from being infected with foodborne pathogens from contaminated raw milk.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/post-5/
MW
MW -"It was preventable,"
How was it preventable?
who: Sylvia Gibson | when: Sat, 04/21/2012 - 20:43 |
I'm still waiting for an answer.
David,
No matter how sanitary a raw dairy farm is, it is all for naught if the herd is shedding E. Coli O157:H7 in their manure. There are ways to prevent the shedding of this pathogen. It is extremely important that dairy cows get some "rough" feed (ESPECIALLY if they are pasture-grazed) that doesn't have the high energy and protein of high quality hay or pasture.
In an email discussion on another list, I noticed someone mention that the pasture in Oregon right now are lacking in roughage. This could explain it. Consumer's demand for the cows being 100% pasture-fed has backfired. It is still important for the cows to get some dry feed, especially this time of year with the first pasture growth.
“No matter how sanitary a raw dairy farm is, it is all for naught if the herd is shedding E. Coli O157:H7 in their manure.”
The issue is whether any contaminating organisms access the milk. And sanitary protocols go a long way to preventing contamination. It is for naught if there is contamination. And-at least according to the literature-scientific that is-this specific organism is present in animals throughout the industry.
There is a lot to be learned about the biology of this organism and adapting appropriate husbandry practices. The issue of controlling shedding by feeding additional or supplemental roughage (rough feed?) in the form of hay has been addressed in many studies. And in general does not prevent shedding. One place to start to understand the feeding issue- is cited below. I’d advise spending more time looking at controlled studies as applied to grass based dairy.- as Gordon points out switching to or starting a grass based dairy operation is not simple.
Here is an entry article to the early literature with a summary abstract:
http://aem.asm.org/content/65/7/3233.full.pdf
APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY,
0099-2240/99/$04.0010
July 1999, p. 3233–3235
Effect of Cattle Diet on Escherichia coli O157:H7
Acid Resistance
The duration of shedding of Escherichia coli O157 isolates by hay-fed and grain-fed steers experimentally
inoculated with E. coli O157:H7 was compared, as well as the acid resistance of the bacteria. The hay-fed
animals shed E. coli O157 longer than the grain-fed animals, and irrespective of diet, these bacteria were
equally acid resistant. Feeding cattle hay may increase human infections with E. coli O157:H7.
This particular study doesn't tell me much useful other than we don't know a whole lot yet. To get the whole story you need to look at the link. The studies are mixed as to whether feeding hay reduces e-coli, and we don't know why. There are a few shortcomings with this particular study though; they only adapted the cows to the diet change 3 weeks before introducing e-coli, the cows were confined, the cows were fed conventional grains, and they used Holstein steers. Would the results be different in a study of cows organically managed under long term diets and fed nutrient dense grains NOT contaminated with round-up? We already know roundup induced manganese deficiency predispose to Shinga susceptibility (and who knows what other health affects that non-organic grain is having). How healthy were the cows? Were they balancing the hay only diets for protein and nutrients? The hay fed cows took an order of magnitude longer to stop shedding E-coli. In light of studies showing an elimination of e-coli in 2 weeks with hay feeding; whats going on here that the cows seem significantly less healthy? Also, this, and most other studies I've heard of (though I've not studied this exclusively) are done on feedlot steers, a much different animal than a mature dairy cow. This particular one looked at Holstein steers a particularly week breed often raised under conditions that predispose them to weak immune systems.
That is correct. That is why I said that this one article-which is easily accessible-is just an entry into a wider body of information--it is only one of many. The "solutions" are not as simply as feeding dry forage any more than the "causes" being marginal pasture.
Bill, you ever own, milk, feed or care for a cow? Ever actually work on a dairy farm? You spout facts and quote studies real well... Only problem is I have noticed you don't always get your facts right, dosen't seem to stop you though. Maybe you should go work for the government, that's what they do too.
sabotage is more likely than other factor
So it sounds like a fairly new dairy? Is there anyone helping them figure out their problem? Dairy, and particularly 100% grass-fed dairy is incredibly difficult with a lot to learn. There is so much contradictory advice with that aspect that I am not surprised they got it wrong.
Naturally RAWMI would like to take this opportunity to expand their empire. Devils are devils; sometimes they like to play good cop bad cop.
A friend related that in the past month Oregon has had 9 inches more rain than average. So the environment there has been a challenge to say the least. That being said in that part of the country some housing option needs to be available for livestock, especially a raw milk dairy. That much rain would also make for very low fiber pasture. Low fiber, poor cud chewing equals cows at less than optimum rumen function (therefore less than optimum immune system function). Also this wet environment will cause mold and fungal diseases to explode which are a big problem for lactating cows (same with moldy hay). The mold and fungal disease problems can really compromise immune system function. Management needs to adapt to this environment and make changes to the ration. I don't think "rough" feed is necessary. Good quality dry hay is needed to dilute the poor quality pasture. When the operation lacks flexibility to adapt to environmental challenges " wreck potential " goes up. Properly mineralized animals and soil really help to reduce risk in these extreme situations also.
We in the raw milk movement need our own experts at the scene to research these outbreaks so we can learn from them what went wrong and what changes need to be made. I think this is the type of thing the Raw Milk Institute could and should do. Who pays for it and who does the field work I don't know. There are obviously breakdowns in systems on these farms we need to understand. We are missing big opportunities to understand what is going wrong. Obviously, the authorities are not going to do any of this because they don't see it as part of their job.
Lola, if I wanted to disrupt, confuse and corrupt the raw milk community I would spread conspiracy rumors (oh yea and use a pseudonym) and get everybody upset so no one trusts anybody. Your doing a great job so far!!!
Wayne Craig
I don't use a pseudo nym ... communicate with me anytime you like - Apparently you're still at the stage where you have confidence in the so-called "authorities". Wait 'til you catch them outright lying through their teeth, as I have, more than once, over 30 years of snake-handling. Then you'll be ready to properly consider the tons of hard evidence proving SOME so-called 'conspiracy theories'.
Thanks for your insights, Wayne. I'm by no means an expert on the subject of animal husbandry, but being around many dairy farms for so many years, I have noticed that cow's stools get awfully loose in the springtime. Obviously, there are a lot of factors that can compound these pathogen issues. No amount of sanitation can correct for the wrong environmental conditions.
That being said... Sanitation is still very important.
Wayne,
After reading your post, I have one question for you - what do you think or want this raw milk movement to look like??? It's been almost 5 years for some, longer for others with farmshares here in Wisconsin, in your opinion have things gotten any better??? Things have gotten considerably worse with very little hope in sight.
If you can remember back in the seventies, when the news media was reporting that Big Ag was planning on owning everything from the seed to the table, the old tymers back then said that will never happen, no way can that ever happen. Well, here we are 40+ years later and their dream has ALMOST came true. We all know about GMOs, artificial insemination, fertilizers, chemicals etc...Those of us who are actively involved in agriculture are the last of the last, THEY have manipulated everything - prices, rules and regulations, laws, you name it, it has been manipulated.
Those of us who are curious enough to ask questions, like why are things the way they are and why are they affecting us the way they do, why are things getting worse instead of getting better? Our elected officials have promised things will get better and they're not. We are called CONSPIRACY THEORISTS because we find the answers we don't want to hear. We tell others what we found and they don't want to hear it or believe it. They laugh at us, make fun of us and ridicule us as fools, idiots etc.. when in reality the real fools are the folks who don't care enough, or want to know enough to ask the hard questions of why things are the way they are.
And when you think of us as fools, or worse, we see you the same way and think you're being too narrow minded to be willing to consider the possibilities.
Wayne, I sincerely hope that someday you will be able to see the forest for the trees!!!
The new definition of the term CONSPIRACY THEORIST is INFORMED INDIVIDUAL and there is getting to be more of us everyday!!!!
To give you all a sense of how loved and or welcomed RAWMI is....when I tried to recruit some of the CA Cow Share leadership into RAWMI, the first thing that was asked was.... when was I going to resign and when would OPDC back away from RAWMI.
Did not exactly leave me with a great heart felt feeling. What is it about Cow Shares verses retail approved raw milk?
My response...who will step up and lead RAWMI and who will pay for RAWMI if OPDC and I take a back seat and fade away?????
A dull silence.....ignorance and bliss in a world of rainbows and tulips.
There is definitely a rejection of large when you are small. This type of niave perspective weakens raw milk and divides raw milk.
The analogy of airplanes really sits well with me. When I was communicating on the radio and flying through the very complex sectors in the LA area this last week, I was doing something called "VFR Flight Following". It is an FAA radar air traffic control system that allows for Air Traffic Control and collision avoidance using a combination of onboard transponders and ground radar and ATC.
The entire system keeps large aircraft from coliding with small aircraft and keeps everyone safe. The voices and professionalism of all the pilots and all the FAA ATC is superb and flows with grace. Flying is ultimate freedom only to the extent that it is done safely.
This is an example of how training, standards, professional conduct, technology and Governement and Private sectors all work together professionally and as a direct result.... freedom and safety all flourish.
There is hardly never a time when a pilot gets mouthy or an ATC controller is unprofessional....
Take this analogy to the Raw Milk Food Safety arena and there is no Government and private sector professional cooperation to deliver freedom or safety. Instead raw milk is a world of agendas and secrecy and unprofesionalism...by untrained, ill equiped people that think they have freedom....when all they have is ignorance and blind utopia. Oregon is a very telling water shed event.
I wish that RAWMI had the time and funds to investigate. But...I am not sure they would be welcomed. When a jet crashes....the NTSB, FAA, the aircraft manufacturer, the prop and engine maker all professionally arrive to look at the causes and design measures to prevent future tragedies.
When raw milk crashes...the farmer hides, the consumers cry, the lawyers circle, dead milk industry gloats, the FDA pushes all raw milk into one ugly dirty scene....
Some day....we will have a little more FAA in our FDA and the pilots that fly little raw milk planes and big raw milk planes will all get training, will all create better flight plans, do some checklists, and work together professionally and think of the government as a critical and respected part of facilitation of freedom and safety.
There is an old saying....there are old pilots and bold pilots...but no old bold pilots. I say that raw milk is much like flying. Checklists, careful planning, deep respect for nature, respectful, professional and mature relationships with our goverment and other pilots regardless of size of aircraft.
Some day....
Mark
"Instead raw milk is a world of agendas and secrecy and unprofesionalism...by untrained, ill equiped people that think they have freedom....when all they have is ignorance and blind utopia."
Exactly. The Raw Milk Movement needs to adopt a progressive agenda and mantra. Until it does, it will continue being a victim of its own backwardness and ignorance.
Lola Granola -- if you are really an Anarchist, as you claim, then I must ask, are you familiar with Proudhon? It seems to me that someone who goes around ranting about the merits of Constitutional Republic doesn't know the first thing about Anarchism. A Republic is a form of statism and aristocracy.
Bill,
Your "debate" tactics have grown tiresome. Whenever you're hankering for a fight, you pull some political philosopher out and try to "prove" that you know more about him than anyone else does, and then use this to justify why your political philosophy is the best one.
Therein I must ask you: Are you familiar with the concept of anarchism under the higher moral principles espoused in Natural Law?
Now, just because philosophically I am an anarchist under the higher moral principles of Natural Law doesn't mean that I don't understand that this country is indeed (well, not so much anymore) a Constitutional Republic, and will discuss things like the legal system in those terms.
(I'll tell you a secret: those philosophers you read? They're stuck in the same false reality as you are. All "-isms", all political philosophies that demand you chose some form of government - latin for "control the mind" - are conning you into giving your sovereignty to another so they can control you. ANY philosophy that suggests government is the answer is wrong and their only purpose is to keep you in a FALSE REALITY.)
Now, if you want a fight, go call a friend or find a Ron Paul blog to pester. I have a poopy diaper to change, and it's looking pretty good right now compared to you.
Lola-
Your conception of "Natural Law" is a contradiction. Is is as ridiculous as "natural rights."
Laws and rights are creations of human societies. They exist to serve our needs, and are created by our own social traditions. Private property no more arises out of nature than does monetary systems or milk pasteurization. In nature... that is to say in reality... EVERYTHING IS INTERCONNECTED. We are all part of the greater whole, and we cannot separate our own reality from that of others.
Insofar as humans are part of "nature" (and I would certainly argue that we are... though we often find ourselves at odd with nature, because our egotistical individualism), then you can rightfully argue that concepts of "law" and "rights" are natural. However, the patriarchal/racist concepts of law and right (which originate in the Roman insitution of slavery) which you and other right-wingers here propose, are as unnatural as milk pasteurization.
Humans are social creatures... we have been since before civilization, and we will continue to be after it has collapsed. The capitalists and their gold be damned. Hopefully we can create the most democratic and free social system possible, but that will never be possible if we cling onto these conservative social ideas you promote.
If you have a chance, check out Aldo Leopold. One of my favorite Wisconsinites. A farmer and naturalist, and author of the Sand County Almanac:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sand_County_Almanac
The Natural Law of which I speak is Universal Law, it is an esoteric concept, not a "law of man" as you believe. You can follow it or not follow it, but it exists whether you follow it or not, and you can't change this fact. It is Fact. It is Truth. (Law of Man seeks to override Natural Law and is the cause of much our suffering.) Until you understand these base concepts, you will never understand where I'm coming from. And as I know you don't understand it, and don't want to understand it, I don't want to continue this stupid conversation with you.
As for the assertion that pasteurization is unnatural...Is setting a kettle of milk over an open fire "unnatural"? How is it somehow more unnatural than cooking meat or vegetables? (Or , why is drinking milk into adulthood and of another species "natural", for that matter?)
Bill & Mark, in your world the government must be honest. Do big ag and big pharma and puppet politicians actually care about the general public or what is scientifically or morally right? You mean all I have to do is follow the rules and play well with everyone. Wow, can you get me a plane ticket? Sounds like if I can fly into your world everything will be wonderful. Where do I sigh up?
Lola and Baily Crane,
I would never suggest that our government is honest. I have been very active in opposing the military-industrial complex and the official lies that drove the US into the war in Iraq for years now.
What I am suggesting is that we can trust the public with the truth, and that when armed with the truth, the public will make the right decisions and hold government and business corporations accountable. This is as true with the causes of war and militarism as it is with raw milk. Is your raw milk clean or dirty? Show us your standard plate counts, coliform counts, etc.. and let's compare those to the conventional milk supply. The public, when educated, can make an informed decision, but this requires transparency on the part of all producers.
This attitude of rugged individualism is going to prove the downfall of the raw milk movement. A more cooperative attitude is needed. We must seek out the greatest good for the most people, and that is precisely what RawMI is supposed to be about. If you really believe in (small "r") republicanism, then the information about raw milk ought to be put into the public arena, as the term "rePUBLIC" implies.
First we have to agree on what is true and I doubt that all will do so. The fact that RAWMI or some association says it is so doesn't make it so.
What is an acceptable count of this or that pathogen? What is an acceptable pathogen?
I work in a field where I have to meet tests and standards every day of the week, specifications are written that I have to meet outlining all of these standards. According to one competitor I have to test my product to a standard for a completely different product, uh no don't think I will do that. Point being third party associations(set standards) are full of games and manipulations.
Southern Consumer, what field do you work in?
In the dairy industry, the Standard Plate Count is widely recognized as the basic test of milk cleanliness. This test is performed by most labs, and is inexpensive. Same goes for a coliform test -- cheap and widely available. Pathogen testing is more expensive, but it doesn't need to be performed as frequently.
Most raw milk cheese makers I know (and I know a lot of them) test EVERY SINGLE BATCH of cheese for the four major pathogens (E. Coli O157:H7, Staph. Aureus, Listeria, and Salmonella). RawMI was not proposing anything to close to that. For the typical cow-share, testing for pathogens once a month should suffice.
I certainly agree that parts of the country lack the laboratory infrastructure, because they do not have highly developed dairy industries. This is not the case in Wisconsin. Being America's Dairyland, there is no shortage of laboratory services. Yet it is here where we have witnessed the strongest backlash against RawMI. RawMI can also help connect producers to laboratory services, or in the long-run, setup labs in areas that do not have them.
So why is there so much resistance to this idea? Its because rugged individualism is ingrained into the American popular psyche by the corporate capitalist media. This effort goes back to the era of McCarthyism and the 1950's, with the blacklisting of suspected communists in Hollywood, and the establish of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals. This effort is intentional, because it divides potentially revolutionary social movements, and prevent us from accomplishing liberatory social change. People cling onto romantic notions of individual liberty for themselves, instead of fighting for the collective liberation of all.
Maybe rugged individualism worked in the Wild West, but we don't live in the 1800's anymore. The progress that has been made in milk hygiene and milk purity over the last 100 years shouldn't be for naught. If the raw milk movement refuses to embrace basic milk hygiene principles, to demonstrate that its raw milk is cleaner than the pasteurized filth, then the movement should fully expect the fate coming to it.
btw... I'm all in favor of easy credit and grants for small farmers. This is one of the beautiful things about the cowshare model -- it is a form of cooperative voluntary socialism, because members of the general public take on some of the financial risk of starting a dairy farm.
"...notions of individual liberty for themselves, instead of fighting for the collective liberation of all."
???
Individual liberty (for all) IS the collective liberation of all. What makes you think anyone here only wants liberty for themselves and not for anyone else?
Lola, this movement reeks of white privilege. I will grant, it is a movement of mostly working-class folks. But I see so much unbelievably narrow-minded parochialism, I cannot begin to take it seriously as a social force for liberation.
In the time we have spent arguing about the finer points of whether a Constitutional Republic can be squared with Anarchism (for the record... it can't), innumerable Americans have been imprisoned because of their class and race, immigrants have been deported due to increasing nationalist, nativist, & isolationism attitudes (a crucial part of the Ron Paul phenomenon), and the wars (now privatized) in Iraq and Afghanisan continue unabated, with more deaths, torture, murder, etc...
Comparing the oppression of raw milk to slavery or racism in the old south is completely out of line, in my opinion, and yet our movement leadership does this on a regular basis, almost without rebuke.
If you really want to talk about the threats to our freedom, here's a good place to start:
http://www.democracynow.org/
Raw milk repression is one of the last things I would consider to be a serious threat to freedom. There is an easy solution to this issue. Plenty of potentially hazardous foods are sold commercially to the general public, so long as good hygiene standards are practiced. The same could apply to raw milk, except that the producers don't want to practice good hygiene.
Mister Anderson : your last sentence shows how far out of touch you are with what's going on with the Campaign for REAL MILK = " .... the producers don't want to practice good hygiene". Nonsense
same as your lack of understanding as your notion that 'cowsharing is social-ism'. The premise of social-ism is : the state owns the means of production. History is replete with such countries herding its citizens to do its bidding, at the point of a gun. But in a cowshare, individuals freely combine our individually-owned property in a common enterprise, which we manage to suit ourselves. See the difference?
Allow me to rephrase myself: The producer's don't want to agree to common hygiene standards.
"Common enterprise" is socialism, Gordon. Fact is, socialism is the basis of all human economies, capitalist or otherwise. There has never been an economy in human history that has been based entirely upon individual property and individual market transactions. All economic systems have collectivist elements, and in fact, collectivist social constructs are almost always more dominant than individualist ones, including under our current system of corporate capitalism.
The challenge is in making these collective enterprises democratic and accountable to the public. Clearly, our existing system of corporate capitalism has failed miserably at that, which is why no one has faith in the common enterprise of the American Republic anymore.
Bill said: "This is one of the beautiful things about the cowshare model -- it is a form of cooperative voluntary socialism, because members of the general public take on some of the financial risk of starting a dairy farm."
What financial risk or liability did any of the herdshare members take in the event of an outbreak (the table Mary M. linked to: http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/outbreaks-and-illnesses-linked-to-ra...
It seems like the owner of these "boarding" facilities took on all of the responsibility when the "members" became sick. The fallout from these outbreak examples suggest that the members are customers buying the milk, not owners buying the cow.
MW
"What financial risk or liability did any of the herdshare members take in the event of an outbreak "
Supposedly the herdshare members bought the cow and paid the farmer to care for and milk the cow. Since they own the cows, and not the farmer, then the herdshare members are responsible for any bills incurred from the cows, unless they can prove the farmer deliberately was careless. It would be doubtful that a farmer would be deliberately careless as that would be financial suicide for them.
But then, our legal system tends to be a bit twisted. If you go to someones home and trip over your own feet and fall and hurt yourself, you can sue and win in a court of law. It doesn't matter that you caused your own injury.
"The theory - promoted by some - is that rules regarding sanitation, safety and distribution can be ignored because all e own the cow and therefore there is not sale and no rules apply. "
The above is from MW link.
Wow, please do name names of those who stated: "promoted by some - is that rules regarding sanitation, safety and distribution can be ignored". I am sure many would like to know who these 'promoters' are. Specific names of real people. I'd like to research them and perhaps speak with them to verify that they made this statement.
If it isn't verifiable, then it is just propaganda and lies to further his agenda.
Bill, Ok...you agree the government is not honest. That's a starting point. In this conversation we have to acknowledge that many small producers cannot participate in RAWMI type testing without alerting the dishonest government that they are producing raw milk thereby threatening their livelyhood. Also, testing is expensive on an independent basis any many small farms can't afford it. There is also the problem if infrastructure, another way the government weeds out small dairy farms is through building codes. Not a lot of small farmers can afford to build new facilities. If you truly want to open a dialogue you have to recognize the resistance to regulations and standards isn't all " rugged individualism ", and it is most definitely not political. You have to be willing to show respect for things you don't understand.
I work in the construction industry and have headed up several new product offerings that had to go extreme testing, dade county approvals etc. The building code while a good thing is now a tool used to eliminate competition. Many times the building codes require tests to meet standards that are not necessary or even related to the product that is stated to need it.
One of my competitors has a test for lumens through a plastic lens cover, problem is, I don't sell plastic lens covers or anything to do with the lights that use them. Additionally this test was withdrawn nearly ten years ago for the industry it applies to. I have been denied projects due to failure to meet testing requirements of the project. So sue them it is the American way, we could, but it is expensive and that competitor wants you to do so he can drag it out for a long time and cost you $$$$$$$$.
Above point to show that Baily has a legitimate point and it is, IMO, the biggest hammer the big guys have over the little farmers. Legislate codes that will require building and you kill the competition. Thus people want to stay out of sight and I understand it.
Mark will appreciate this, I think.
One of the reasons that I came up with the association concept for our particular product was due to a lack of knowledge in the architectural community. We had a 70year old competitor selling a similar but different product who was defining our product in the design community. I have spent many years educating, still do and always will be, this group and figured an association would be great way to reach the masses, stop the disinformation, and a greater good for the product.
While the above is true and it is working, albeit slowly, the greatest thing is to keep teaching. When you make a mistake admit it, apologize and continue to teach. While I still lose work due to certain relationships previously built we are definitely winning, painfully yet we are winning.
I appreciate the dogged will to carry on.
Bill
The greatest good at what or who’s expense? Are we not in this shambles to begin with because of attempts to achieve a so-called greater good?
God didn’t create rights; he created human beings with a free will.
Ken Conrad
One needs to accept that God is, before they can deal with rights or wills. We can debate free will another time. :)
Fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Prov 1:7
“To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
― Thomas Paine
No, Ken, we are in this mess because of the triumph of private greed over public good.
This is the consequence of the last 30 years of neo-liberal economic policies, starting with Reaganonomics, various deregulation schemes, the various international "free-trade" agreements that have gutted out our economy, the destruction of labor union rights, etc...
I don't for one second believe any of our politicians are acting in the public interest, and that is the problem. Until the forces of organized greed can be reigned in, we can forget about ever having a say in government. Political influence is up for sale. Its the free market at work, don't you know?
Bill
Your attempt to pit “private greed” verses a “public good” is misleading. It takes two to tango and you know as well as I do that the presiding democratically elected government is involved as well. Hence public greed among other things also has a role to play with respect to the current predicament.
Government, irrespective of the form it takes, looses all integrity when it fails to respect an individual’s free will to choose. It will require the effort of fearless, freethinking individuals (rugged individualisms if you will) to chip away at the current crony political system and bring about meaningful change.
Ken
It it not private individuals of their own ability and effort perpetrating wrongs; they are empowered to do so by the corporate edifices. There is nothing free about our markets and hasn't been for 100 years or more.
Bill, who do you suppose is going to confront private greed and corrupt government? All those worker bees sacrificing themselves for the greater good? All those consumer advocate groups formed to protect us? Labor unions? The only people I see standing up for the greater good are rugged individuals: Michael Schmidt, Vernon Hershberger, Max Kane, even Mark Macafee. Bill you need to get out of your head and go live a little. Stop reading about political history and go see how it plays out in real life.
"Bill, who do you suppose is going to confront private greed and corrupt government?"
Who else, but We the People, Baily Crane? That is our duty as citizens in a democratic republic, is it not?
There were over 100,000 of us that occupied the Wisconsin capital building for a month, over a year ago, in protest of our corrupt governor Scott Walker (who is bought and paid for by the petrochemical billionaire Koch Brothers -- the leading US "libertarians" today. For the record, the Koch's don't seem to care much about raw milk. Their priority is destroying the EPA so they can pollute with impunity, and busting labor unions so they can depress wages with impunity.)
Michael Schmidt does not strike me as a rugged individualist. Michael's farm is collectively managed, and he was the first one to suggest that cow-shares are a type of socialism (it wasn't my idea, Watson).
Pete -- the free market is a myth. There has NEVER been an idealized free market, ever, in human history? Markets are social constructs, just like money, laws, religious & political ideologies, etc...
For a thorough debunking of the myth of the free market, and a history of the real origins of market economies, see this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Debt-The-First-000-Years/dp/1933633867
"To give you all a sense of how loved and or welcomed RAWMI is....when I tried to recruit some of the CA Cow Share leadership into RAWMI, the first thing that was asked was.... when was I going to resign and when would OPDC back away from RAWMI."
Mark, do you really not understand that it is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST for you to head both OPDC and RAWMI, especially in regards to California raw milk regulation? OPDC has a financial interest in making the barriers to market entry as strict as possible, and the herdshare leadership knows this. Is this concept really so elusive to you?
a rising tide lifts all boats : for the sake of discussion, let's say 12% of the whole population would drink raw milk, if it were available legally and in a price range which is acceptable. For instance ; in the lower Mainland of British Columbia, there are at least 1 million people within 100 miles of downtown Vancouver. Thus, 120,000 potential consumers. Of which Home on the Range was serving about ~400 households \ say 1000 individuals - before being driven out of business. Maybe another 12 cowshares still going in BC, serving ~ 2000 people. Plus, a trickle of REAL MILK coming in to BC over the border from Washington State. As the nation repudiates the de-based, de-natured phood-stuff produced by the the Marxist model, demand for REAL MILK is growing parallel to the genuine organic fruits + vegetables. that demand will be met, one way or another. There's more than enough room for cowshares and also individually-owned dairies.
Small is beuatiful, sure, but there's nothing wrong with thinking big. Would you rather have a magical Mac at your fingertips, or would you prefer the 2 Steves - Jobs and Wozniak - were still tinkering-away in their garage ?
s
Even though "the power to regulate is the power to prohibit" - there is no reason why simple standards cannot be instituted to keep dairies clean and consumers safe without over-burdening the small farmer with unnecessary expense. Indeed, it is more difficult to keep a larger dairy sanitary than a smaller one. So surely there is a way to make the standards scalable for the size of the dairy. Perhaps multiple smaller dairies could pool together and divide certain costs in order to afford access to laboratory testing or other such checks and balances.
My Sisters Farm has 2 dairy cows, a farm share in Ca. (David, you would enjoy visiting the farm and meeting the 3 sisters) To 'regulate' as recommended by the state of Ca would cost her over $100000. I would bet this is not doable for most small farms. Her farm already has a separate room for milking, cooling/refrigeration, etc. She tests her milk regularly and works closely with UC Davis.
If these standards would indeed be simple and cost effective then it should be a simple matter of education of farmers and consumers. Really, most of this stuff is common sense. You only need regulation and the power of the gun if you want to keep people out of the market place or force them to bend the knee to the bankers and death pledge themselves for the vast amounts of money needed for concrete et. al.
Licensor and regulation presumes that government is god and that milking a cow and selling her milk is a government granted privilege. That concept violates our God given rights and completely flips upside down our system of government where THE PEOPLE hold the power and grant to the government certain limited privileges.
Again this all comes back to the basics; this isn't about safety, its about keeping the farmers enslaved to the processors and regulators. That is why when Michael Schmidt won is case the response from the conventional dairy association was, if it going to be legal it must be regulated. And that is why we see controlled oppositions popping up and all these calls for regulation of raw milk.
Pete-
Michael Schmidt supports RawMI, and supports hygiene standards for raw milk production.
I disagree with you about rights. Democracy is not a spectator sport, and rights are not just given to us by God. Rights are taken and excersised, by people who are organized and educated, and practice a democratic ethic.
Part of the work of claiming rights to food sovereignty includes educating producers and organizing them in such a way that they can produce a safe product. It is not realistic to expect consumers to have intimate knowledge of dairy sanitation and milk safety issues... there are experts for that job.
The skepticism of the existing regulatory agencies is completely understandable, since we all know they are in the pocket of big business. But this does not mean that all regulation is inherently bad. The history of the Wisconsin dairy industry shows us that when the first milk hygiene standards were adopted, though at first these regulations were bitterly resisted by the farmers, it actually ended up expanding the market for dairy products by improving public confidence. Prior to those regulations, milk was often viewed with skepticism because it was often contaminated or adulterated. It was good regulation that gave Wisconsin more small dairy farms than any other state in the US.
"...and rights are not just given to us by God."
If rights do not derive from God, where do they come from?
If they come from man, where does he derive his right to rule?
Your vocabulary word for the day:
Solipsism - the idea that there is no Truth, the Truth cannot be known, and that the only thing that exists is what is in one's own mind.
in the Soviet model, your "experts" were called "commissars" and we know how that turned out, even if you won't admit it
Bill,
Why MUST they be ORGANIZED in order to produce safe milk?
Lots of folks do that all the time, and have throughout history, without any organization at all. Organization is primarily for the benefit of the organizer.
I wonder how raw milk was ever produced safely before science and 'experts' showed up...
Your trust and reliance in technocrats is a product of your political indoctrination, not the reality of history.
Pete - The issue is that small dairy outbreaks affect the rest of us. I would prefer no regulations at all, but the government has already made raw milk illegal in most states. Small outbreaks create a negative image for raw milk and create public and government scrutiny which affect the availability for the rest of us.
This is a double standard and only true because the government wants it to be. Pasteurized milk regularly has outbreaks, even killing people. Yet no one is agitating for it to be shut down. If regulated pasteurized milk sickens people why would regulating raw milk help?
Outbreaks create a negative only for those farms who sicken people. They create a negative image for everyone only if you're going to claim that raw milk is perfectly safe.
Only "clean" milk is safe. Pasteurized milk is all dirty. Some people think that Any raw milk is better than Any pasteurized milk - but it simply is not the case. We need to change the argument to clean vs dirty - then nobody can blame raw.
Ckroftruth, sounds reasonable. If raw milk is going to be produced on large farms and sold retail it makes sense to have a stricter level of regulation. Could be there needs to be different levels of regulations that fit different sizes and distribution types.
"when I tried to recruit some of the CA Cow Share leadership into RAWMI, the first thing that was asked was.... when was I going to resign and when would OPDC back away from RAWMI. "
Conflict of interest? Your personal/professional interests appear to be at odds with the best interests of the the smaller dairies. You've maligned the small dairy farmers on this blog. There appears to be a low confidence level directed towards you.
"There is hardly never a time when a pilot gets mouthy"
My daughter is an ATC in the navy and I've heard some stories....mouthy? Yup, silly? yup, You Tube has some really funny ATC/pilots conversations.
Mark, I love your analogy.
Sylvia,
I have not maligned small dairies at this blog. I have maligned ignorance, secrecy and denial on this blog. I am more committed now than ever that RAWMI is desparately needed and I support "Good Well Operated Cow Shares in CA" more than ever. In the Cow Share working group there are terrific people that are open and ready for an NGO to assist them and they want to do well....there are also some of the greatest idiots I have ever had the missfortune of meeting in this group. These idiots would throw away a life vest... if they were drowning.
I have no Conflict of Interest. I have run out of raw milk at OPDC and have several stores per week asking to be put on routes...our trucks are full. We need more responsibly produced raw milk in CA. I know that some of the Cow Share operators are perfectly suited to provide raw milk to the public. But...they are held back by their lack of GUTS to control their internal politics. You can only help those that want help.
In the world of raw milk...ignorance is not bliss. We need all the help we can get. We need research on the best rations to control ecoli STEC in cows. We need confirmation of GMP's, SSOP's and CCP's. We need seasonal testing of herds manure to confirm the change of pathogen load through the year. Anyone that denies that we need assistance to get to higher ground is in deep denial.
I will be working with CA Department of Public Health and CDFA to do a study of OPDC fecal samples this year as part of a joint effort to better understand ecoli 0157H7. That is the kind of thing that is needed....try and get a cow share to sign off on that.
Who should lead RAWMI ?? I am open for any ideas. Mike Schmidt resigned from Cow Share Canada last year when he realized that he was not going to be the best thing for CSC and it was not good for him. I am not going to resign from RAWMI until we get some serious progress made and someone that is as determined as I am can take over.
RAWMI is not for everyone. I would certainly not want RAWMI to List a farmer that does not care or will not commit to RAMP and appropriate testing etc....those farmers are dangerous. That is why we need an NGO to help all raw milk dairymen to get their act together. Tough words...but true words.
Mark, I commend your efforts. It is a shame the 1st outbreak you experienced didn’t motivate this action. It is also a shame that Dee Creek wasn’t the watershed event. This outbreak mimics Dee Creek. http://www.marlerclark.com/case_news/view/dee-creek-farm-e-coli-outbreak...
The conversations taking place today about raw milk safety protocol, dirty milk (aka, poop in the milk), ignorant raw milk dairy farmers, proper nutrition for the cows, etc… should have taken place 6 years ago. Unfortunately, back then everyone was focused on blaming the victim’s immune system, claiming some other food source caused the illness, or creating a conspiracy theory. Anything but looking at the truth—raw milk was contaminated and caused renal failure in children.
Mark, one thing I do know is that you have a new found respect for the damage E.coli 0157:H7 can do to all involved in a raw milk outbreak.
I do hope lessons can be learned from this current tragedy.
As for RAWMI, it is hard to take it serious when pathogens are not mentioned anywhere on the website.
Mark you are deluding your self. Conflict of interest abounds. And you have maligned herd shares and small dairies multiple times. And your response on this blog about the Oregon outbreak is it wouldn't have happened if they'd just joined RAWMI! And yet you claim not to have the funding to investigate outbreaks? That makes no sense, particularly since you keep traipsing around the country pushing raw milk. Mark, you're a great marketer, but the side affect of that is your big head clouds your vision. After all, you were the one in ignorance and denial for some time about the ability of raw milk(esp. grass-fed) to sicken people.
Tough words... Mark, the knowledge you try to share and positive impact you could have is hampered by your dogmatism. You clearly do not understand the plight of the small raw milk farmer who is forced to play dodge ball with rouge government agencies. You sound very defensive. And with good reason, but nonetheless when you use your "tough words" you turn people off. I'm not a farmer and I cringe at some of the accusations and generalizations you make about people you don't know and people who's lives you so very obviously can't relate to. The rest of the country isn't subject to the same rules you play by in CA. and to judge others by things they can not control is not helpful. In case you didn't know most of the rest of the country lives by a different reality than you do.
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/article/2011/december/22/bull-china-sh...
" I'm not sure what's going on here, whether it's a clash of communication and lobbying styles or a serious disagreement over substance. Or maybe a combination. The locals in both states are feeling shut out of RAWMI's lobbying campaign. But part of what concerns the locals is that RAWMI appears to be pushing for "safety" rules that the locals consider "burdensome." "All of which prompted Mastrocola of Wisconsin to wonder in his email if WAPF was inadvertently sabotaging long-term local efforts..."
Tactics such as this only serves to further divide people. This whole thread speaks volumes.
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/article/2010/june/2/if-farmers-and-con...
The divisions on this blog alone show that there is still no communication between the farmers and consumers. RAWMI will have to earn trust from the farmers. There doesn't appear to be any trust between the farmers and the govt. So far the govt has not shown any desire to work with the farmers. If things stay on the current track, it may come to either get your own cow or drink mass produced raw/pasteurized milk products or avoid milk products.
the right to use and enjoy your property, belongs to those who assert it : cowsharing works
Anyone interested in knowing the number of raw milk outbreaks involving herdshares there have been in the U.S. since the year 2000? http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/outbreaks-and-illnesses-linked-to-ra...
When you drink raw milk, you might not be playing such a high risk game as Russian roulette. But you certainly are playing a higher stakes number game than boarding an airplane.
Of course you can be like Joel Salatin who looked diectly in my eyes last weekend and said: "You are going to argue data, and I am going to argue philosophy."
Of course the CDC is out to screw all raw milk proponents and farmers, but it does put out some data that is interesting:
"A recent study by the Centers for Disease Control found that the rate of illnesses caused by raw milk and the products made from it was 150 times greater than illness linked to pasteurized milk. The FDA attributes 85 food-borne illness outbreaks over a 10-year period (1,614 people sick, 187 hospitalizations, two deaths) to consumption of unpasteurized milk, even though only a small percentage of the population drinks raw milk.
The raw milk advocates at the debate compared pictures of shriveled, pasteurized-milk drinking mice with robust, raw-milk mice, and offered lots of anecdotes and case studies. But dramatic pictures don’t mean good science, and case studies cannot be the basis of public policy. Pasteurization does reduce certain vitamins and probiotics, but they are available in other foods."
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/17/2752387/pasteurization-proponents-...
Kristen, when you decide to believe the CDC statistics keep in mind data statistics are extremely easy to manipulate. The point here is that no one is forced to drink raw milk. But when you buy food at the store are you getting what you think you are? As a consumer I think I have the right to decide for my self what I eat. I don't want to eat GMO food, I don't want to eat growth hormones, I don't want to eat BPA, or fake sugar or fake oil, or antibiotics...need I go on. This health argument is so unproductive, if the gov cared about public health why did both of my parents die from smoking tobacco? Why is round up legal? Why are there junk food vending machines in schools? And need I point out how many people recently died from contaminated cantaloupe, even though the produce industry is heavily regulated. Common sense people... YES raw milk needs to be produced with care, yes RAWMI could help farmers who need AND WANT help, and yes many, many farmers are and will continue to produce safe, clean raw milk with no interference from anybody. If any food is mass produced or distributed to sold to people who choose to buy retail there should be added controls. But if people are willing to take responsibility or risk of seeking out food directly from a farmer then it is between them and the farmer. People who depend on agencies for their well being are taking risks too. The choice belongs to each of us.
Kristen P, seriously you are bringing up that propaganda piece again. Did you notice they didn't include 2007 info because that year 3 people and a miscarriage occurred from pasteurized milk consumption. Maybe CDC is running 5 years behind on data analysis. Surely they won't cook the books to make their case, this is our benevolent government after all. I know you are not a big WAPF fan, but check out their rebuttal of this CDC piece of propaganda. They spell out all the tricks CDC used to get their analysis to fit their agenda. Liars figure and figures lie. Don't be so gullible!!
Wayne Craig
You are right, Wayne. I am not a WAPF fan. When Sally Fallon lies to make her case for raw dairy, I don't trust her. When she twists research to fit her agenda, I don't trust her. When WAPF calls in the same person, Dr. Ted Beals, as their expert, well it's just plain laughable really. Dr. Beal's database on all illnesses attributed to raw milk since 1999 is laughable. Our author here, David Gumpert, says he compares apples to apples when he compares raw milk illnesses to all total food borne illnesses. That's not apples to apples because only 3% of the population drinks raw milk. So, Wayne, you tell me how we'd really compare apples to apples in this little numbers game.
The only issue is "clean" vs "dirty". Some raw milk is dirty, all pasteurized milk is dirty - before and after pasteurization. Outbreaks occur when the milk is dirty no matter if it is raw or pasteurized. Period.
When you board a plane and attach your seatbelt....you have also gone through a TSA scanner and been felt up by a stange person. The aircraft has been inspected and tested a million times and is subject to routine teardown and rebuild. The pilot is drug tested, highly trained and tested and inspected by a government FAA inspector and there is even a second pilot. It is because of the crash investigation in the last 100 years that commercial aviation has the outstanding record of safety that it has. It is also because all pilots are taught that a crash does not occur in isolation. I crash ocurrs ( nearly all of the time and with rare exception ) after a failure in a chain of events that started happening long before the twisted metal and tragedy strikes.
The COW SHARE is an Ultra Light Aircraft that flies with virtually NO regulation or required pilot training. All passengers climb on board and sit right next to the pilot....the passenger thinks he knows the pilot and as the Ultralight crashes...he learns that he knew very little. Those rusty bolts holding on the cloth covered wing had not been checked or changed in years!!
It is wake up time for Cow Shares. Even Colorado recognized this and has a mandatory safety program in RMAC and it works very well . Those that want complete secrecy and freedom will get neither.
Raw Milk is to much like flying.
RAWMI is a resource for all pilots of raw milk airplanes big or small. It has been recognized that the EAA ( Experimental Aircraft Association ) has enhanced Ultra Light and small aircraft safety tremendously by supplying training, education, mentoring and standards to the wild west of small mostly unregulated aircraft.
Sounds like RAWMI to me...
Wow... You have such a narrow view of reality. Maybe you should come down out of the clouds sometime and listen to yourself. Ever read Animal Farm ... remember the pigs? There is a huge difference between the FAA and the FDA, or did you miss the part where Monsanto executives develope your beloved regulations...ask them about transparency. I'm guessing you have heard the saying about the fox in the hen house, that's what folks are worried about with you. You may be right about a lot of stuff but when you start sounding like a know it all preacher you loose credibility.
mere text on a tv screen loses a lot of someone's personality. Have you met Mark McAffee? I spent a couple of days squiring him around Vancouver, back in 2007. So I have the sense of the man to go with what he says. He's a wealth generator ... part of the payoff for people like that, is, the satisfaction of helping others get what they have for themselves =lifting others up. Critics ought to step back and ask themselves : "what's their own motivation ?"
In politics, inevitably, you make friends and you make enemies ... it just comes with the territory.
Ultimately, I want universal access to clean, fresh raw milk.
I could care less about the crap they pasteurize and try to pawn off as milk.
I don’t want regulations to interfere with my access and I don’t want greed or ignorance to taint my raw milk.
So stop arguing and come up with some practical solutions. Let’s solve this!
Many on this blog and others, have stated that the big dairies like OP & Claravale; that wish to sell to the masses should be regulated and those who engage in cow share and/or private contract with the small farmers should be left alone from the regulators. That seems like a simple resolution.
Perfect, Sylvia.
It is a simple resolution until one of the small farms runs into an issue. The problem is that the small farm issues will impact everyone, big and small, it taints the industry as a whole... regardless of size.
It is inevitable that a small farm will run into an issue. It is only the Utopians who think we can have a perfect outcome. But the government will lie to you that you can have a perfect outcome because they want you to bend the knee to them. But the truth of the matter is the unregulated small producers of anything have fewer problems, and smaller scale problems when they do, than the large regulated outfits.
It doesn't actually impact anyone but those consuming the milk. It only seems impacts everyone because the state wants to use them as excuses to destroy and/or regulate them. To say it impacts everyone is an exercise in foregone conclusions.
Pete, slyvia, southern consumer- you all make sense. Fod safety regulations do not i
Oops...continued. Food safety regulations do not guarentee safe food. Laws about raw milk govern distribution, tests are reactive not proactive, small farms are substantially better equipped to produce "clean" food. Food safety can result in fewer pathogens in food but often require an increase in chemical usage to achieve that goal; less gastrointestinal risk, but greater cancer risk....hmmm. As has been pointed out small farmers have added incentive to produce a high quality product. Large is not always bad...we actually need big business, i.e. EMPLOYERS. Legislators like regulations because they take liability off the legislature, and because with food safety there is a predictable level of risk. Not reduced risk...a predictable level. Voluntary inspection for small farms and required inspection and standards for large scale operations and those selling to the retail market. It's not as complicated as it seems.
Raw milk outbreaks anywhere impact everyone right now because raw milk is illegal to sell to the public in most states. As long as the big milk business is afraid of the truth about the nutritious nature of raw milk (vs pasteurized) getting out to the public, the media and government will maintain an adversarial position against it and overlook the real "clean" vs "dirty" issue and pretend that all raw is "dirty". At this point in the struggle to legalize and make raw milk available to the public, we cannot afford any bad press that can be misconstrued by the media and the general public. Raw milk anywhere is reflecting on raw milk everywhere, so we all need to be diligent on the cleanliness issue. If we can't rely on cowshares to stop poisoning their consumers and tainting the image of raw milk, then we need to intervene before they ruin it for all of us.
P.S. OPDC and Claravale are still small dairies compared to the big conventional pasteurized dairies. Last I heard, OPDC had under 500 head and Claravale under 100 head.
pckroftruth ; please put your comment in context ? ie. "If we can't rely on cowshares to stop poisoning their consumers and tainting the image of raw milk, then we need to intervene before they ruin it for all of us." Who is the "we" you speak for, as in "we need to intervene." ?
your posting is very suspicious ... particularly, use of the word "poisoning" ... what a troll would say, to poison the discourse, rather than someone who sympathizes with the Campaign for REAL MILK.
if you think you're going to walk on to my property and dictate to me how you prefer me to do dairying, you'd better think again. A trade association of artisanal dairy producers is where this is all headed ... do-able and voluntary
"We" the consumers of raw milk. Not other dairy owners. The people who want to drink it without worrying about whether it is clean. The people who want the small farmers to have the integrity to know their own animals and not allow consumers to buy their milk if it is going through a rough spot - even if it means losing profits. The people who are not affiliated with any dairy but who still take the time to protest various governmental and regulatory agencies in order to allow for legal access of a god-given food. That "we".
then the appropriate way to 'intervene' is to not intervene, at all.... just quit buying from a producer in whom you don't have confidence. That's a lot more effectuve = and lawful = than trespassing and interfering with someone else's private property
I do abstain from unclean raw dairies - however their actions can affect my ability to get it elsewhere when the negative publicity reaches a wide audience and taints the reputation of raw milk in general. Their actions cause clean and legal operations to be scrutinized and raided. Get it?
ckroftruth,
You're playing fast and loose with both logic and facts in agitating for regulated raw dairies. To start, raw milk is legal in 'most' states (35-39 depending on if you want to count pet sales), not illegal in most as you claim.
http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm
Second, you presume one dairy having a problem necessarily taints all of them. That is a violation of logic and is only true if you are trying to maintain the proposition that all milk everywhere is perfectly safe. People are more sophisticated than that, which is why many are picky about what dairy they get their milk from. This is not a raw milk perspective but a regulator and industry perspective (the former claiming pasteurization makes milk safe and the later that raw milk outbreaks taint the reputation of milk everywhere).
Third, you are using circular logic to come to a foregone conclusion: Regulators want raw milk to be regulated so they agitage against raw milk dairies, using supposed sicknesses as an excuse therefore in order for us to have raw milk we must regulate them to prevent sickness. In truth, there will be outbreaks, regulation or not. Nothing will change with regulation w.r.t. people getting sick.
The problem here isn't that people are getting sick from raw milk or that raw milk dairies are unregulated, but that regulators are trying to expand their power. So how about instead of trying to enslave raw milk producers to satisfy your supposed desire to access raw milk, you take up your complaints with the governments who are unconstitutionally coming between you and your God given right to the food of your choice.
Pete
On your link, I count only ten states that allow retail sales of raw milk. This means than most of the general public is never exposed to the option of raw milk. This helps to perpetuate the idea that it is dangerous.
In California, the state I was born and raised in, raw milk is constantly under threat of over-regulation, sabotage, negative media assaults and midnight legislative actions that attempt to take raw milk off the store shelves under the name of public safety. I have personally been involved in demonstrations, hearings and letter writing campaigns that have helped to reverse over-regulation in LA County and state-wide. I’ve bought, drunk from and visited dairies in California, Oregon, Arizona and Milwaukee and bought raw milk from Pennsylvania, New York and Florida as well. I’ve seen several dairies go bankrupt fighting unjust regulations and trying to find loopholes like labeling it “for pets” to no avail.
But California still has the highest milk cleanliness standards in the nation, and they should – being the largest producers of milk in the country.
There is a war raging against raw milk. The fact that it is not available on the shelf next to the pasteurized milk is evidence the public does not know the difference in the health benefits that clean raw milk has to offer. The fact that California raw milk has to carry a threatening Government Warning on its label is evidence that the people are not fighting hard enough to change that image.
The pasteurized milk producers don’t want raw to be legal, or respected – it is a threat to their 100 billion dollar industry.
We, the people need to demand legalization of “clean” raw milk in every state in order to validate the nutrition of nature’s most perfect food itself. Milk is the cornerstone of nutrition and the health food movement. If we let the legislature dictate that we are not allowed direct access to it; they will soon fuck up every food sold at the market by mandating “safety measures” like pasteurizing juices or eggs in the shell, irradiating all our fruits and vegetables, etc. Oh wait – it’s already happening.
If we are only able to get real foods direct from the farm, how many of us will be poisoned. The Food Safety Modernization Act already allows the government to prevent you from growing your own home garden.
We are already being over-regulated. Running away and hiding on our farms or in our houses and pretending we have rights is not the way to take back our country. The way to take it back is to get involved in the legislative process and gridlock the State Capitals every time they don’t pass the laws we want. And that means educating our neighbors and turning them on to the benefits of raw milk so that the media won’t be able to sway them with negative publicity.
Right now, raw milk is running for president as a third party candidate and every little outbreak from every little dirty dairy is an indiscretion of the worst kind and reflects badly on the whole movement – mainly to those who don’t understand what clean raw milk is all about. This is a public image war and we need to start changing the argument to clean vs dirty not raw vs pasteurized.
what I do understand, having lived through the outright lying propaganda of 2009* in BC, is that the govt. is not committed to playing fair, let alone logical, in its campaign to outlaw live food, REAL MILK being front and centre. Your writing conveys the assumption that the govt. is simply respoding to genuine outbreaks of illness consequent from actual pathogens in raw milk. I bet the majority of all that noise is not supported by factual evidence. My point being : very little of the filth is in the milk from daires already doing their utmost to put out the best food in the world, rather, it's the corrupt hidden hand
our argument is that the powers that be are straining at a gnat, while swallowing the whole camel.
I believe our winning strategy is to go on the offensive : teach, teach teach about a ] - the adulteration of "homo milk" = it's not what it was 60 years ago. And b] - that "homo milk" IS the cause of the epidemic of diabetes, as well as Crohne's disease.
Southern Consumer - Exactly! Small dairies careless actions affect the entire movement right now.
Pages