Good Fun About Rawesome and Raw Milk on Colbert--Too Bad Real Life Can't Be So Much Fun As Standoff Arises in MO

There was a very cute "report" on the Rawesome Food Club raid and raw milk on The Colbert Report. It's a comedy show, so they had to make it sound funny--out-of-control government, chuckle-chuckle on the "Raw"--but the seriousness did come through when they showed the actual footage of the raiders with their guns drawn June 30. Hard to escape reality.

I'll give David Acheson, the former head of food safety at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, credit for being the straight man in allowing himself to be interviewed, and skewered.

The good news about the segment was that the government June 30 raid footage was finally shown to a national audience. (Huge numbers of people get their "news" from this and "The Daily Show", another comedy news show.) The establishment media, of course, shy away from such stuff.

The segment also did good by presenting the raw milk issue as a matter of rights ("Pasteurization without representation," as Rep. Ron Paul stated) and the best line of the segment, in my judgment, went to James Stewart of Rawesome when he said,  "It's my right to get dysentery if I choose to." Sounds crazy, but we do have the right to consume foods that damage our liver (alcohol), kidneys (highly salted snack and other foods), and pancreas (the many high-sugar foods).

Unfortunately, the show couldn't examine the followup problems that I described briefly in my previous post. I think Tim Wightman has the right idea about The State's intentions in a raid, in his comment following my previous post. But the effects are increasingly to make life miserable for suppliers caught up in the dragnet via the follow-on harassment and heavy-handed techniques.

My sense is that consumers are ever more prepared to continue buying from producers who have been targeted. Some of those producers simply duck under the radar and go their way to quietly supply customers. From what I'm told, Rawesome Food Club has seen its membership climb since the June 30 guns-drawn raid. That has to scare the authorities, because if consumers won't be scared off by goons with drawn guns in their food outlet, then what will they be scared off by?

But it's the drip-drip-drip of the follow-on harassment that can be the undoing of suppliers. That seems to be the case with Morningland Dairy. I've since gained access to some of the documentation in that situation, and it appears Morningland Dairy, the cheese producer unfortunate enough to have its cheese seized in the June 30 raid and discovered by California agriculture authorities to contain listeria. (Milky Way is correct that the amount of listeria identified by authorities wasn't revealed; I assumed it was a trace amount, since no one has gotten sick from that cheese, this year, or in thirty years of company operations; presumably something more than a trace would have made at least one of the hundreds, or perhaps thousands, who ingested it sick.)

The correspondence between the Missouri Milk Board and Morningland Dairy suggests there is a huge dispute about additional testing that was done on the company's cheese at a private lab in Missouri--testing in addition to that conducted by the California Department of Food and Agriculture. (I have the correspondence in a number of pieces, so am not immediately able to make it available on the blog.) But essentially, the state says it supervised tests of 14 samples of the company's cheese in late August, and found listeria monocytogenes in six of the samples, and staphylococcus aureleus (a bacteria that can cause staph infections) in all the samples.

The company says the samples were independently and improperly provided by one of its employees--who had just come from a hospital setting and hadn't washed--without regulator involvement and oversight, as required in such situations. In other words, little if any attention was given to the kinds of matters Ron Klein describes in his comment on my previous post.

Morningland points out that a subsequent thorough inspection of its premises by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration found no evidence of pathogens of any sort, but its efforts to convince the Missouri Milk Board to re-do the tests on its packaged and unpackaged inventory have been unavailing.

With the U.S. Food and Drug Administration obviously leaning heavily on the Missouri Milk Board, the agency is demanding that the company destroy all cheese produced since the start of the year--about 50,000 pounds, or $250,000 worth--"because of the serious nature of the pathogens present in the embargoed cheese products..." I say the FDA must be leaning on the agency because we haven't seen such draconian measures in other food recalls where not a single person has become ill.

In a letter of "objection" to the Missouri Milk Board, the company states, "To date, there has been no legitimate test performed on Morningland Dairy cheese, although Morningland Dairy owners have repeatedly requested that proper tests be done. California authorities did not sign the test they allegedly performed until 55 days after product was seized at gunpoint from Rawesome Foods. No sample of said product was shared with Morningland Dairy as is required by California and Missouri statutes; therefore, there is no confirmation of the findings reported by the California Department of Food and Agriculture."

Morningland Dairy officials indicate they are not going to take the order lying down. "Because of the untenable nature of the order of destruction, we cannot comply..."

They offer a compromise, an "offer to test each batch of cheese in our cooler prior to shipping the product to our customers." Seems reasonable, especially as they note, "it is far from a light matter to put families out of work and out of business when no harm has occurred to anyone in a thiry-year history..."

They add: "At this point, Oct. 6, 2010, we have been required to recall six months of work, have been completely shut down and forced to dump milk for nearly five weeks, are being told we must destroy at least eight months of work. Further, we have no assurance that we will be allowed to continue to produce our product without subjection to overzealous enforcement actions on the part of the FDA or the Missouri Milk Board. We seek justice, reason, logic and decency, and we desire to live peaceably and to profit from our labor. Due process is inherent in our system, and we request that it be followed."

Reason? Logic? Decency? Due process? That's asking a lot from regulators fighting their version of a holy war against producers of nutrient-dense food.

One final note: There is mention ?in a comment following my previous post about accusations being made by the people running Rawesome Food Club as to the integrity of its food. It seems that even within the food rights movement, individuals can become very passionate about whether particular food measures up to particular standards. There is a lot of "he-said-she-said" in the back-and-forth of what's happening. It's my sense that this is another example of the difficulties created by the business pressures of that June 30 government raid on Rawesome.

 

Wow....the best the Rawesome guys could come up with was the wonderful vibration frequencies found in raw milk??? I am shocked. what a disservice to us all in this movement. To become the butt end of a Colbert Report joke!! Raw milk is serious. The Rawesome crowd has made it a joke....just like their guru and his science.

What about the real science,....not the nut case Venice Beach wacho stuff. What about lactose intolerance, healing asthma, healing ulcers, healing and preventing ear infections in kids. What about UC Davis Dr. German studies of raw breast milk.

This reminds me....never give the microphone to a whack-job.

The good news is that Colbert did a great job exposing the weirdness of it all and people will start thinking. The bad news is that common people that really need raw milk will think that raw milk drinkers are whack-jobs that drink raw milk out of some cosmic frequency vibration need thing and that Rawesome members get Dysentery from raw milk on a regular basis.

What a blown opportunity. What a joke....Nice job Rawesome.

Mark

Milky Way-

The examples I present in the previous thread provide ample evidence of the safety of raw dairy products of all ages, pH's, and moisture contents. Each of those cheeses I described is an AOC cheese, meaning its identity is closely protected, so that all cheeses which bear the name are produced in the particular region (much as true Champagne wine must be produced in the Champagne region) and follow a strict set of production standards (including the use of raw milk -- sub-pastuerization thermal treatment is forbidden) which protect the traditional artisinal nature of the cheese making.

Those AOC raw milk cheeses have a long safety record, in some cases thousands of years of tradition. The one example I provided of a cheese which caused an outbreak was from a pasteurized immitator, because of the lack of competative bacteria in pasteurized milk.

How you extrapolate from this a case for banning all raw dairy products is beyond me.

re: Staph. Aureus, it is ubiqituos in the enviroment. It is actually a part of the natural micro-flora of your skin.

It is dangerous NOT as an infectious (pathogenic) orgnaism, but as a toxigenic (toxin-producing) organism AT HIGH CONCENTRATIONS. Staph only produces the entero-toxin when it reaches a certain critical population -- above approximately 1 million organisms per mL.

In fact, the Staph entero-toxin IS HEAT STABLE, and so pastuerization is no control for large Staph populations in dirty CAFO raw milk.

Staph is present in most raw milk cheese in small concentrations, but its growth is supressed by competative exclusion from the cheese starter cultures and other natural cultures in the raw milk. Because Staph grows in a cluster form (like a bunch of grapes) there can be pockets of Staph which can survive the cheese making process, but which cease growing for lack of food (lactose) and will begin dying off as the cheese ages.

When it comes to Staph, population is everything. The mere fact that Staph was found is no reason for alarm, unless they have found a extraordinarily large population or have found the Staph entero-toxin present.

As for the listeria, how do we know that did not come from third-party handling, such as rawsome re-packaging the cheese and contaminating it?

It seems to me that the regulators are trying to punish Morningland for their association with Rawsome. I think some heads need to start rolling at FDA and MMB.

Bill,

Your knowledge of milk biology, fermentation and culture behavior is impressive....keep it coming... I love it.

Milky Way....who are you anyway?? At least give us a clue. Are you a government sluth or what? If the world went your way we would all be dead.....please see Dr. Bonny Basslers work again ( MIT Biologist researcher ). We are bacteria.....lots of them and lots of different kinds of them. When you speak like you do.....you certify yourself as very ignorrant.

Please go to back to school....you are hurting humanity when you hate-on bacterial diversity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVfmUfr8VPA

Mark

Morningland Dairy...

Piece of advice....call your consumers and announce a press conference. Pick a fight and get your consumers started telling the truth to the media...The media will show up. They love a juicy story. The consumers stories will resonate with the majority of Americans that hate the FDA food police anyway.

The time is right....you have done nothing wrong.

You need to be all-in. No more dumping your milk.

It is time to take a stand.

Mark

Good news from a collaboration between military and university finding the combination of factors which appear to cause colony collapse in bees:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/science/07bees.html?src=me&ref=general

Interesting development....

In Temecula CA there is a store called Delaneys Farmers Market. The store sells local farm fresh products including OPDC raw milk.

The store has become so excited with raw milk that they started selling Raw Milk Icecream that they made from OPDC cream and raw milk. They really went "off the reservation" when they started selling local raw goats milk ( not inspected by CDFA ) and even some other local raw cows milk that was not state inspected.

Whoops....The CDFA police quickly found out ( God knows how ), inspected the place and seized the Ice Cream and illegal raw milk products being sold by or from non-OPDC producers. They did not touch OPDC products however.

Do not think for one second that just because CA has legal raw milk in 400 stores that CA is a leader in food freedom. It is comply with the rules or die by them.

The trick to all of this food-fighting is to win the political fights at the highest levels. It takes people demanding change and freedom at the legislature. It takes hearings. It takes lots of work. It is amazing how the CDFA leaves OPDC alone now-a-days.

It is almost like we are under their wing as long as we comply with the rules.

Almost....

Mark

One more thing....Delaneys was told by the CDFA inspector that selling Raw Ice-Cream and making un-inspected raw cheese and or selling uninspected raw milk is a felony....WOW...!!

Delaneys is scared half to death and now back on the reservation.

Comply or die....thats the box we survive in.

Mark

From Steve's link: "d both do their dirty work in the bee gut, suggesting that insect nutrition is somehow compromised. "

And what do bees eat? We know they gather pollen.....

"controllable with antifungal agents" add more poison to the monsanto contaminated bees

Mark said: "They really went off the reservation."

What do you mean by that?

MW

You mean someone went on Colbert and ended up looking silly? Maybe they should have turned down the opportunity for national press coverage...

I like Vonderplanitz and the Rawesome people. Some of the coolest people I've met have been in that circle.

Do we have a date set to do an analysis of the milk pool records to confirm that the outsourcing has stopped? That might help mend this Kerman-Venice rift. I really hate to see all of this in-fighting, but I'm with Rawesome without a question.

A raw milk victory in PA:

http://pasafarming.org/news/pasa-news/pasa-news-|-raw-milk-aftermath-how-sweet-it-is

Everyone give your children a big glass of raw milk in celebration. Don't forget the elders in your family.

Milky Way....

What I meant by that is this....

It is highly illegal under the PMO and State of CA regs to produce raw ice-cream and sell it. It is a big no no and everyone knows it. It is a multi-ingredient product and it is nearly impossible to know what part of it made people sick ( eggs, flavors, fruit, cream, milk, sugar etc...). That is why the government Ice-Cream police enforce this rule so hard. Delaneys....was selling raw Ice Cream. This is something that is really a big bad no no.

You can make all the raw ice cream you want at home and eat it all day long. But not at a store.

Amanda.....what documents do you want to see that prove that OPDC does not outsource for its fluid raw milk bottling???? I will post them on our website if you identify what they are. One more time....OPDC has never outsourced for bottling of its raw milk....never ever.

How about a letter from CDFA Milk Pool auditors that testifies to the fact that OPDC Milk Pool Audits clearly show that OPDC has never bottled any raw milk from any dairy other than its own...does that work for you??

In the past we have purchased raw milk from other grass fed organic certified dairies to make butter. This is legal and it is not unsafe. Class 4 products like raw cheese and raw butter are not subject to the same pathogen tests because they do not grow pathogens like class 1-3 products may.

In fact we are considering buying some organic raw milk to make raw butter next week. All the skim organic milk ( by product ) would be resold back to be pasteurized at organic creameries in LA.

Does that cause you to have chest pains Amanda....???

We have not done this in years but now that I know it causes you chest pains we just may do it again to spite your comments.

Amanda...you have a real problem. You can not figuer out which side of the fence you sit on. I do not know whether you sit with John Sheehan or with us. What do you believe....what is your agenda? You bash OPDC raw milk and you bash OPDC but then you ask me to be friendly and prove up all sorts of things. Why should I be friendly or cooperative to an enemy of our consumers and our products??? Or are you an enemy???

I do not know what you are.

Why should you care....do you eat OPDC raw butter?

Amanda...lets start first with you declaring what in fact you are....what you believe and explain who you stand with. Then we will go from there.

Mark

Amanda,

One more thing....

There is no Kerman Rawesome Rift. Rawesome is Rawesome and OPDC is OPDC.

Aajonus and I do not agree on his form of science or food safety standards. He is intitled to his beliefs and I to mine. He wants pathogens and tons of bacteria in his raw milk and I want safe delicious, pathogen free biodiverse raw milk.

He gets advice from Coyotes...I shoot Coyotes ( most get away...darn! ) when they try to eat my new-born calves.

Simple as that.

I do not think that we will fix this so called "Rift" any time soon...I have reached out to James and Aajonus repeatedly to no avail.

I will follow the state of CA Raw Milk standards religiously to assure that all CA consumers can have access to legal, safe, delicious organic grass fed raw milk and....

Rawesome will continue to get raided by the CDFA, FBI , FDA and others.

Simple enough...

Mark

Mark, it appears that when someone gets close to the truth, your M.O. is to do a counter attack with insults. Amanda Rose has been making the same request for some time now. It is not complicated or unclear. She would like a copy of the milk pool records to see if your outsourcing for cream, butter, cheese and colostrum has stopped. As a reader, it seems like you are always dodging the request. Why dont you just produce the information she is requesting? Send it to David and he can post it.

BTW, the threat to outsource just to spite her is very juvenile. The whole issue isnt that you possibly continue to outsource; it is about integrity and ethics. If you outsource for these products then it should be stated on the label that this particular product did not come from your cows. The raw milk movement is based on trust. It is deceitful to outsource for non fluid milk products and not inform your customers.

cp

If memory serves, last time you admitted to outsourcing was one year ago and you said it stopped in March of 2009. That was not *years* ago at all. In fact, also in March 2009, you testified before the Senate that the outsourcing has stopped.

And no, I don't want a certified letter from the milk pool. I want to walk into the milk pool office and examine the documents.

You can make that happen.

I believe it was October 2007 when I sat in your office working on the PR for AB1735 when I saw the first tanker bringing in thousands of gallons of milk to turn into butter and I offered to help you write something about it for your customers on your website, so that your practices would be clear and people would know where their milk has come from. From October 2007 through April 2008, I continued to urge more transparency. It was in April of 2008 that I wrote about it myself.

Since then I've been asking for access to the milk pool records to prove that you've stopped, as you have claimed. You see, being pretty good at math and markets, I don't think you have.

Then I read your RAMP plan written this spring and I see you have made provision for accepting bulk outside shipments of raw milk from other dairies. That way, when it comes out sometime in the future that you have been outsourcing all along, you can say, "It's part of my RAMP plan. I've been totally transparent about it."

Now you can also say, "See I am doing all of this outsourcing just to spite Amanda Rose. She's like John Sheehan you know, drinking milk from goats instead of OPDC because she has standards."

Anyhoo, you can "spite me" and continue to outsource but if you really want to put this all to rest, I'll drive right up to Sac and do a forensics analysis of the data. Send Chessen too. She's not too far from Sac. Maybe David will hop a plane and join us.

To clarify, Mark is absolutely right: I am not an OPDC customer. I used to be. In fact, some of the Rawesome guys were drivers back in the day and totally cool to meet up with on the highway for my stash.

Amanda

Mark,

Keep in mind too that whatever milk you are bringing in this week is from cows that are not currently on a pasture diet. There are no green pastures right now in California unless the farmer irrigates and I am aware of no one who does that but you (and I have looked into this for another issue).

When you do package that outsourced butter and send it to the marketplace, be sure to use different labeling. I recommended this to you three years ago, but I'll give it another shot. If people know where it came from and buy it anyway, there is no issue in my mind.

Relabel the product and consider lowering the price as well

Amanda

Amanda, cp and MW (whoever you are),

Let's be quite clear.

There was never any proof that OPDC caused any illness whatsoever.

Mary used a flawed justice system to scare Mark's insurance company into paying big bucks after she ignored a clearly printed warning on the product she fed to her son.

She does not live in a cave. As far as I am aware, the internet existed in 2006. As for all this talk about outsourcing, it is a red herring.

Like I said, if the labels reflect reality, I don't have an issue.

Does anyone here have a problem with transparency in labeling in a place like California where raw dairy is legal at retail?

In any case, we can look at the milk pool records and verify Mark's claims here specifically, that outsourcing has been intermittent and in small quantities, that the skim milk is sold off, and that it matches his butter quantities. Mark has been less than forthcoming about the outsourcing. Checking the records is the only way I see settling this issue.

Hey guys, I have a sick kid, so I am going to take care of him. I pop in here on occasion and always ask for access to the milk pool records. I hope some day that Mark will see the need to clear this issue up. The fact that he hasn't makes me think it's all smoke and mirrors. He has my email when he's ready to "Come to Jesus" (as he has said of Sheehan and I think Marler).

On the Vonderplanitz issue, a year ago I present a paper on raw milk consumer information and probably should get it published, but it was a Vonderplanitz person who was my key example of "free choice." The labeling fraud would be at the other end of the spectrum.

Most of us who have had a son have had one that is sick at one time or another. For this, we don't expect a purple heart or a million-dollar settlement. We just put our heads down and do what we can to make him well.

I'm really surprised that as part of his settlement Mark didn't get some sort of gag order. Seems like an oversight on his lawyer's part.

So Kirsten, why do you have the impression that I read the warning label when I purchased the milk? If you are going to go on the internet as an expert about my sons illness, please get the story straight. BTW, all the facts that were used in the lawsuit regarding Chris illness are a part of public record with both the state of California and the CDC.

Mary McGonigle-Martin

Kirsten, since you have taken an interest in the facts of on our sons illness, below are all the facts of our case. Just to set the record straight, there is a gag order on our lawsuit. No one can discuss the monetary outcome of the settlement. Where did you get the idea it was a million dollar settlement? Due to the seriousness of the gag order, it may not be a good idea to be posting this on the internet. You may want to rethink why you are making this kind of statement in public.

http://www.marlerblog.com/uploads/file/CHRISTOPHER%20MARTIN.pdf 26 page mediation letter

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5723a2.htm -- CDC Report

http://www.marlerblog.com/uploads/file/OP%20SDL%20Attachments%202%20CDHS%20Final%20Report(2).pdf --CDH Report

http://www.marlerblog.com/legal-cases/2006-e-coli-o157h7-outbreak-linked-to-organic-pastures-raw-milk---one-victims-story/ --Our video

http://www.safetables.org/victim_wall/display.cfm?id=97 Story on STOP

Mary

Yes, Mary. You did go back and forth about buying the milk for Chris. You knew the risks. You've posted that you knew so on this blog. The labeling was there.

Period.

Kirsten, this topic has been beaten to death on this blog. Here is some information by one of the ambulance chasers; http://beforeitsnews.com/story/82/568/Chris_Martin_Raw_Milk_E._coli_Victim_Sports_a_www.realrawmilkfacts.com_T-shirt.html

"f two patients who had been hospitalized with HUS. One was culture confirmed as infected with E. coli O157:H7. "

It has been so long, I don't recall which was NOT culture confirmed. This was also during the time of the spinach contamination. http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/article_a7f54f30-f920-5616-896a-2783516a3e0e.html

"Mary said Chris ate spinach and drank raw milk in the days leading up to his hospital stay, which began Sept. 7. She said she isn't sure which product contained the bacteria." ""If I could describe it in one word, it would be 'hell,'" Mary said.

The couple said they believe their son would have recovered fairly easily from the E. coli infection were it not for a dose of antibiotics he should never have been given. This medical error, they said, pushed Chris to develop hemolytic uremic syndrome and ultimately kidney failure, they said."

"They said that if the first doctor Chris saw when he went into the hospital on the first night would have put a wristband on him noting that he should not receive a dose of antibiotics, then the second doctor may not have administered the dose that sent Chris spiraling into trauma.

"All they needed was one little wristband," Mary said."

I don't recall the e-coli strain in the positive kids being found in the milk or poop. No one will ever know if had the "medical error" not ocured, would the suffering have been avoided?

Beaten to Death is about right, Sylvia. The wrong persons got sued.

Here's the real thing though: if Mary wanted to find out the real thing about Chris' illness, why not go all the way? Why not get everyone deposed? Why settle? HUH?

Sylvia,

I looked at Mary Martin's link. The experts clearly agreed that the implicated raw milk and/or colostrum was the source of illness for 6 children. It is worth noting that none of these children ate the brand of commercial, bagged baby spinach that was without question, implicated in the 2006 spinach outbreak.

http://www.marlerblog.com/uploads/file/CHRISTOPHER%20MARTIN.pdf
26 page mediation letter

Kirsten,

Regarding identity, if you knew mine, would it make a hoot of difference for you? I doubt it. My impression from your posts is that you would dismiss anything written on this blog that deviated from your view of the world regardless of identity or credentials. In contrast, miguel and a few others don't care (and I don't care either about where they live or work - am only interested in listening and considering what they have to say). My job would not be threatened by posting on this blog, though some co-workers might tease about why anyone would bother to waste time on a non-debatable issue. In reality, I don't post my name because I fear people like you - a very small contingency looking for an enemy to harass. Despite you and your ilk, there are productive conversations going on within and outside this blog world because others know that there is room for different opinions, and thoughts about solutions to conflicts.

Speaking of people going public, your attack on Mary Martin vs. discussing the issues she brings-up is shameful.

MW

Kirsten, I believe lawyers will go the easy route. All those medical facilities and staff, have bigger and more numerous lawyers to battle suites and would take years to complete with no sure bet on what the winnings would be. The dairies/farms and little stores on the other hand...easy pickens,

Sylvia,

Yep, Right On!

MW (Whoever you may be)

Hope you're going to the Keep Fear Alive march! I am no threat to you.

Sylvia,

Yep, Right On!

MW,

No need to get so huffy. I did ask for your credentials, but I take it I won't be getting them. Are you planning to go to the Keep Fear Alive march? 'Cause just so's you know, I'm no threat to you.

leave mary alone

labeling was not there, Kristen. You haven't been listening. Re-read my elephant post from April of 2008 for a refresher.

Kirsten,

Where/when is it (Keep Fear Alive March)? Is there a 5k/10k walk/run kick-off for promoting health through the reduction of chronic AND infectious diseases? LOL, no threat too.

MW

Good evening, Amanda.

I hope your child is feeling better.

Sylvia, you quote from a local newspaper that wrote a story about our family when we returned home from the hospital. I believe it was written sometime in November of 2006. I wanted the focus of the article to be a thank you to everyone in our community that donated blood and for friends and neighbors that took care of our home, pool, dog, etc. for 2 months while we were gone. When a reporter interviews you, you are at the mercy of whatever they choose to write; so some things are taken out of context. For example, me stating that we dont know what caused Chris to become ill. This was in the context of a conversation regarding the public health department picking up the spinach and milk to be tested, but it never ended up being tested. They didnt test it because Chris didnt eat Dole packaged spinach and he never tested positive for E.coli 0157:H7. Even though Chris had HUS, they were too overloaded with others that tested positive for E.coli. Everyone believes that health departments are biased against raw milk. They had the bottle but didnt test it.

As for the antibiotics, four years post HUS I have a completely different perspective. Chris had all the symptoms of pre-HUS. He would have developed HUS regardless of the antibiotics given. No doubt the antibiotics probably should not have been given, but it is one of the variables that may actually have saved his colon. After Chris was released from the hospital, I did lots of research on this topic. Antibiotics with E.coli 0157:H7 is a crap shoot. In severe cases of E.coli 0157:H7 that turns into HUS, kids colons need to be removed because antibiotics were not used. In the worse case scenario the colon can die killing the child. There are no easy answers when your child gets a severe E.coli: 0157:H7 infection.

Sylvia, youre a nurse. You know what goes on in hospitals. Everyone is so over worked. Human error can happen at anytime and believe me we had our share over a 2 month period of time. Despite everything, I have nothing but the greatest respect for the job you do daily. PICU nurses are the best. I really think they are angels in disguise.

Kirsten, you really should quit posting about things you know nothing about. It makes you look foolish. Do you actually think I was in charge of who was to be deposed? Im so curious, who else should have been deposed? Do you even know who was deposed?

Mary

I fear consumer fraud.

Thank you, Kirsten. He's still recovering but doing much better.

I will admit right now that I was not deposed but I obviously had a lot to say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_North_American_E._coli_outbreak

"Two companies in California voluntarily recalled spinach and spinach-containing products: Natural Selection Foods LLC,[17] based in San Juan Bautista, and River Ranch Fresh Foods.[7][17][18] Natural Selection brands include Natural Selection Foods, Pride of San Juan, Earthbound Farm, Bellissima, Dole, Rave Spinach, Emeril, Sysco, O Organic, Fresh Point, River Ranch, Superior, Nature's Basket, Pro-Mark, Compliments, Trader Joe's, Jansal Valley, Cheney Brothers, D'Arrigo Brothers, Green Harvest, Mann, Mills Family Farm, Premium Fresh, Snoboy, The Farmer's Market, Tanimura & Antle, President's Choice, Cross Valley, and Riverside Farms. Affected brands from River Ranch include Hy-Vee, Farmer's Market and Fresh and Easy. Later, a third company, RLB Food Distributors, issued a multiple East Coast states recall of spinach-containing salad products for possible E. coli contamination.[19]"

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2006/ucm108742.htm

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/food-safety-outbreaks/food-safety-outbreak-spinach.html

Spinach was packaged under many names that included Dole, Packing houses commingle products often. A bag of Dole spinach in NM was found to have the same e-coli that those ill had. It was not just the Dole brand that was contaminated.

"Later, a third company, RLB Food Distributors, issued a multiple East Coast states recall of spinach-containing salad products for possible E. coli contamination.[19]"

This is the number one thing wrong with American food system... the same product is spread around under dozens, if not hundreds, of different label brands. The better-appearing produce goes to the expensive brands; the same, not-so-good-looking produce is sold under off-brands, but it all comes from the same central distributor with the potential to harm thousands if not millions.

Yet the FDA wants to stop farm direct-supplied food because it "might be dangerous" to consumers, even though obviously, a farm's smaller consumer base would affect many thousands fewer people than mega-corps already do.

This is absolutely crazy.

Sylvia, let me say this one more time. CHRIS DID NOT EAT DOLE PACKAGED SPINACH OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF PACKAGED SPINACH IN SEPTEMBER OF 2006.

I purchased loose spinach from our local health food store.

Mary

No offense, Mary... but as a farmer who also grows organic veggies to sell to my local health food store, I know that when I'm not able to supply them, they buy from a bulk mostly organic supplier, the name of which escapes me at present. I know this is true because I use the supplier's price list (which the HFS gives me) as a basis for setting my own prices.

It's highly likely that yours does too....

Sylvia,

Your link goes to an old news article written before the investigation was completed. Never a bad idea to take media reports with a grain of salt...and seek out more than one source, especially when reading old articles written in the middle of an ongoing investigation.

MW

I think a few people need to review the facts of the 2006 spinach outbreak. Packaged leafy greens are the most vulnerable to pathogen contamination. It is like hamburger meaet. A few contaminated leaves can make the whole batch contaminated.

Goatmaid, it is a stretch to think that the 10 or 15 leaves of baby spinach I purchased from an open bin were contaminated. I was trying to find how many confirmed cases of illness there were from California linked to spinach in 2006. The only data I can find is from October of 2006. At that time there were 2. So I guess you are suggesting there were 2 (who at Dole packaged spinach) and Chris,

Mary

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jul08/greens0708.htm

http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/June07/Features/Spinach.htm

http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/June07/Features/Spinach.htm

http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Quality-Safety/Temperature-abuse-of-packaged-salads-raises-food-safety-fears-study

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2010/02/study-finds-bacteria-in-packaged-greens/

http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/tags/bagged-lettuce/

http://www.marlerclark.com/case_news/view/dole-spinach-e-coli-outbreak-nationwide